Chile Forum

Good god DSW...My heart goes out to you. I know what f-asses TSA and other airline persons can be. From the creep in the bowels of the airport who stole a Nike Gear Jewelry box (filled with MY hand-made fired-clay beads instead of expensive jewelry) and the extensive, ridiculous claims process, to the idiots who bark at you to "move along" as you try to grab your shoes, belt, change, computer and at the security areas, to the fuckers who gleefully inform you that "you don't have to fly with us today" when you complain about one ticket agent for 150 people who have been waiting two hours to check in, to the flight attendants who, on a half empty plane, will not let you sit in any of the leg-room seats by the emergency exits because they are "premium seats".

I made my last trip to the states in October. I can't do it anymore. My heart, and my sanity cannot deal with the travel there, or what I find when I get there. I always find myself asking the ridiculous question..."What happened to decency"? Unfortunately, the "states" have considerable influence over countries that have previously - at least- been decent in the travel business. Maybe not efficient, but decent. I'm done with the sheep mentality..."Oh, they have a hard job"..."it's the rules...there must be rules" excuses. Bullshit. Being decent is something that has been lost in air travel especially. Safety and rules are an excuse to be a fucking asshole for too many folks.

If I ever MUST travel back through the states, I am thinking of collecting some Tiffany Jewelry boxes. Filling them with nice gifts from my dog. Placing them in my bags and upon arriving and finding them gone, smiling. By the way, having an irrational fear of flying, I never fly withouth my pre-flight medication regiment: A Guinness to coat the stomach, two martini's and .25 mg. of clonazapan (if I can get it). I board, buckle up, slam into a nice sleep and awake in time for landing. Flight attendants are much better off than a freaking-out jumpy woman crying at each bump and weave of the big metal tube as we careen from point A to point B.

God bless you DSW for somehow maintaining.

Another experience:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post ... r/604369/1

AA bringing back complimentary drinks on Chile flights!

Enjoy complimentary beer and wine when you travel in the main cabin onboard American's international flights starting February 1. Customers traveling on American-operated flights between the U.S. and Europe, the U.S. and Asia and / or onboard long-haul flights between the U.S. and Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Uruguay can choose from a variety of complimentary beer and wine options, in addition to the full selection of nonalcoholic beverages.

Sold!

John agreed with Red.

California South wrote:

But this morning we have this bit of news from a freedom of information act request disclosing the DHS and TSA monitoring of social media sites for political descent.
http://epic.org/foia/epic-v-dhs-media-monitoring/
http://epic.org/2012/01/epic---foia-doc ... eal-h.html
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/01/14 ... al-dissent

FYI, @AnotherJoe : check out these links, particularly the last one .. you've had some interesting commentary re: TSA on your own blog.

Thanks CS, I'm a little slow on the draw these days with my new assignment... missing the good stuff.

The last link didn't work for me.


PX, guffaw.... woke the dog up with my laughter. You do have a way with words.

regioncentralX wrote:AA bringing back complimentary drinks on Chile flights!

Jeez, this is embarrassing Even Alcoholics Anonymous advocates drinking while flying.

Here is AA's non-pulsed response to my complaint.

ME:
On January 14, 2012, my wife and I were scheduled to fly from Santiago, Chile to Dallas, TX on AA flight number AA940. The flight was booked by the Gemini South Observatory and we purchased our tickets in December 2011 to assure adjoining seats.

However, somehow we were issued new boarding passes at the gate and only after boarding did we realize we no longer had adjoining seats. I remained in the mid-ship galley to stay out of the way of boarding passengers as my wife headed aft and politely pointed out the discrepancy to a flight attendant.

According to my wife, when she asked if arrangements could be made for us to sit together, the flight attendant, in an unpleasant tone, replied “only if two passengers were willing to give up their seats.” After a very short time, two passengers graciously volunteered and the aft passengers clapped as my wife motioned me to sit in our newly assigned, adjoining seats. No longer had I sat down in my seat and buckled in when I was approached by a flight attendant and informed that I was being deplaned because I “smelled like alcohol.”
Highly embarrassed and under duress, my wife and I headed forward, under escort, to enquire why this decision had been made and to ask the Captain to reconsider the decision made by his crew. After assuring him that I was not drunk and by no means a flight risk, I politely asked permission to stay aboard, he told me “regardless of his opinion, he had to stand by the decision of his crew and had no option but to remove me from the flight”.
I do not believe I should have been deplaned based on these facts:
1) I only had minimal contact with one flight attendant as I stood in the mid-ship galley. In fact, only once did a flight attendant stop and ask why I was not taking my seat. I explained the seating error and she acknowledged my response. Before she left to continue her boarding duties, I noticed there was a gallon of water on the counter alongside a stack of plastic cups. I asked her if I might have a glass of water and she smiled and told me to help myself. I had no other direct contact with any other flight attendants.
2) When speaking with the Captain, he told me that all three flight attendants concurred that I smelled like alcohol when, in fact, I had not spoken to any flight attendants except the one in the mid-galley as referred to in #1 above.
3) Deplaned and under escort through the passenger loading bridge, my escort enquired as to why I was deplaned. I told him why and he immediately questioned the decision since I was obviously in total control of my faculties.
4) Immediately after rebooking at the boarding gate for the next day’s flight (by the way, thanks for that), I was turned over to another escort and taken upstairs to be debriefed by the on-duty safety/security manager. This escort, too, questioned the flight attendants’ decisions because I did not appear drunk and certainly not a flight risk.
5) Upon arrival in the safety/security manager’s office, the first question she asked was “who interviewed you to determine that you were a flight risk?” I honestly answered no one and she expressed her shock and told me point blank “that is not the procedure for a passenger to be deplaned.”
6) After debriefing with the safety/security manager face- to- face for at least 10 minutes, she apologized for the decision the flight attendants had made and said “After speaking with you, I see no reason why you should have been deplaned.”
7) Apparently, in an attempt to right a wrong, the safety/security manager issued me vouchers for food and lodging for my inconvenience and informed me that, in her career with American Airlines, this was an unprecedented gesture and if I had actually been intoxicated she would not have given me any vouchers. This in itself should strengthen my case.
Lastly and coincidently, the ticket agent that issued my boarding pass the next day happened to be my escort the previous night to the safety/security manager’s office and voluntarily reconfirmed the fact that when I was deplaned, proper procedure was not followed.

I would like to make a few suggestions to handle this type situation in the future:
1) Do follow exact procedures. Consider the difference between “Sir, you need to get off the plane, the flight attendants say you smell like alcohol” and “I’m sorry, but after speaking with you, you appear too intoxicated to remain onboard, I need you to deplane.” Had I been “interviewed” as was suggested by the safety/security manager at my debriefing, I doubt if I would have been deplaned. However, had I been pulled aside, interviewed and deplaned I would have a) not been as embarrassed as I was being pulled from my seat as other passengers gawked and b) had more respect for how the decision was made.
2) It is probably not uncommon for a passenger to board a flight “smelling like alcohol.” Many of us aren’t seasoned fliers and may need a little help to relax. Please remind the flight attendants not to assume a passenger is “drunk” or a “flight risk” because of the way they smell. As in my case, I had just consumed alcohol so of course I smelled like it, but I was by no means “drunk” or a “flight risk.”
3) Finally, under the circumstance a passenger is deplaned, but traveling with a companion that stays aboard, in the short time allowed to deplane, please add to your flight attendants procedures to remind the passengers to exchange anything (medications, documents, cash, etc…) they might need while separated. For example, I deplaned with my carry-on baggage with all my wife’s medications. Please believe me when I say she suffered greatly and was put at physical risk from this. And documentation…passports, id’s, tickets…are just as important as well as cash especially considering international flights.

I have flown American Airlines my entire life from the time I boarded my first flight in 1982 to attend Navy boot camp. I have not flown any other airline since. I am a very nervous flier and readily admit that I lightly “self-medicate” in an airport bar prior to boarding any flight. It helps calm my nerves and makes the flight a much more tolerable experience. It bewilders me as to why this particular crew chose to deplane me when, in fact, I have maintained the same pre-flight ritual with American Airlines for 30 years.
I will not stop choosing American Airlines as my carrier. Why would I? Except for this incident, American Airlines and I have a great history together. I also understand and can appreciate the pressures of being a flight attendant. I am extremely respectful of them and the job they do every day. However, I wholeheartedly believe an incorrect decision was made when the crew of flight AA940 had me deplane.
Thank you for your time and consideration,


AA:
Thank you again for speaking with me recently. We are in receipt of your followup letter detailing your January 13 experience at the Santiago, Chile airport. Please be assured we have taken your comments seriously and we've conscientiously reviewed the incident you described.

In the carefully considered opinion of our inflight personnel, there were indications that you gave the appearance of intoxication. We acted accordingly. We have the responsibility and authority to take necessary action to ensure the safety of our flights and the customers aboard them.

More specifically, Federal Air Regulation 121.575 firmly governs the issue of alcohol and intoxication for all US carriers, and we are prohibited from boarding anyone who has the appearance of intoxication. Please know that inasmuch as we are not required to discern intoxication by any scientific means, the appearance of a passenger is all-important.

Still, our personnel are expected to resolve such problems as tactfully and professionally as possible. Your feedback about our handling of this particular situation is appreciated and it has been shared with the crew by copy to the appropriate Flight Services Manager. While we cannot alter the outcome of this situation Mr. XXXXX, we consider it to have been an isolated matter. We appreciate your loyalty to American Airlines over the years, and we hope you'll have occasion to travel with us again soon.

swdchile wrote:OMG. Gotta vent. After 9 months in Chile, my wife and I finally were headed back to the US to visit our kids for a couple weeks. When we booked our flights we were lucky enough to get adjoining seats for the entire trip. Last night when we boarded the plane in STG for DFW, AA had changed our boarding passes and we no longer had adjoining seats. My wife talked with the attendants hoping to arrange for us to sit together. It took a few minutes and several people were gracious enough to accomodate us.

The entire time this was happening, I stayed out of the way in the galley waiting until things were sorted out. When things were sorted, I walked back to my new seat next to my wife and had no sooner sat down when an agent approached and informed me that the attendants smelled alcohol on me and I was deboarded.

In the 2 hours before boarding the flight, I had 2 beers, 2 shots of tequila and a cheeseburger. I admit I must "medicate" a little before flying. I was not disruptive. I was not interrogated as to my ability to "control" myself. I said nary a word to anyone on the flight. I am so pissed right now I'm seeing red.

In a cheer to Chile, after I was taken off the plane, every single person I dealt with totally questioned the decision to have me taken off the flight. In fact, in an unprecedented move, the Chilean manager that debriefed me on the incident told me she was so embarrased by the US flight attendants decision that she gave me vouchers for a hotel and 3 meals while I wait for my flight tonight. At least AA put me on the next night's flight and it didn't cost me anything.

But, what the hell?! I should not have been kicked of the flight. I truly believe it was retaliation for my wife forcing the issue to sit together. And if everyone that smelled of alcohol were deboarded, I think most flights would be half empty. Thanks for reading my rant. I feel better already.

Welcome to Americas over the top belated reaction to 9/11. I still remember flying from the US back to the UK in the 90s, and British Airways having to have their own metal detectors before the airplane as they didn't trust the US security, and still had the problem of the IRA.

Ranting flight attendant predicts crash, is subdued by passengers

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 4226.story

Possible connection?

I so hoped that she was a flight attendant on flight 940; the incident was out of DFW. Here's an update to my story anyway. This is what I sent to AA in response to their somewhat boilerplate answer to me:


Dear AA,

Thank you for your response regarding this incident; however, given my interactions with the AA staff in the Santiago airport, I believe it fails to explain to me why I was deplaned. Perhaps it would be better for me to ask a few questions instead of simply stating my side of the event.
1. Would you please review the inflight personnel's report and let me know specifically what my actions were that had them state “there were indications that you gave the appearance of intoxication?”
2. Is it AA’s policy to provide room and board to passengers that are too intoxicated to fly? If you “are prohibited from boarding anyone who has the appearance of intoxication” and “the appearance of a passenger is all-important,” why was I afforded the courtesy of overnight room and board by the on-duty safety/security manager?
3. Since you state that “we are not required to discern intoxication by any scientific means,” does this not open the possibility that an incorrect decision may have been made in my case?
4. Did you review the report submitted by the on-duty safety/security manager’s office and would you please let me know what it says? I was assured that it would be made clear in the report that after interviewing me, the safety/security manager believed I was fit to fly.
Mr. X, I am not trying to get anything out of this except a better explanation as to why I was deplaned. I understand the tremendous pressure inflight personnel are under during boarding, but in this case I believe the decision have me deplane was incorrect. And upon your further review, if in fact it was possibly an incorrect decision, I would like the inflight personnel of AA flight number AA940 on 1/14/12 to be made aware of this fact.
Once again, thank you for your time and consideration,

Vicki and Greg Lansen wrote:Good god DSW...My heart goes out to you. I know what f-asses TSA and other airline persons can be. From the creep in the bowels of the airport who stole a Nike Gear Jewelry box (filled with MY hand-made fired-clay beads instead of expensive jewelry) and the extensive, ridiculous claims process, to the idiots who bark at you to "move along" as you try to grab your shoes, belt, change, computer and at the security areas, to the fuckers who gleefully inform you that "you don't have to fly with us today" when you complain about one ticket agent for 150 people who have been waiting two hours to check in, to the flight attendants who, on a half empty plane, will not let you sit in any of the leg-room seats by the emergency exits because they are "premium seats".

I made my last trip to the states in October. I can't do it anymore. My heart, and my sanity cannot deal with the travel there, or what I find when I get there. I always find myself asking the ridiculous question..."What happened to decency"? Unfortunately, the "states" have considerable influence over countries that have previously - at least- been decent in the travel business. Maybe not efficient, but decent. I'm done with the sheep mentality..."Oh, they have a hard job"..."it's the rules...there must be rules" excuses. Bullshit. Being decent is something that has been lost in air travel especially. Safety and rules are an excuse to be a fucking asshole for too many folks.

If I ever MUST travel back through the states, I am thinking of collecting some Tiffany Jewelry boxes. Filling them with nice gifts from my dog. Placing them in my bags and upon arriving and finding them gone, smiling. By the way, having an irrational fear of flying, I never fly withouth my pre-flight medication regiment: A Guinness to coat the stomach, two martini's and .25 mg. of clonazapan (if I can get it). I board, buckle up, slam into a nice sleep and awake in time for landing. Flight attendants are much better off than a freaking-out jumpy woman crying at each bump and weave of the big metal tube as we careen from point A to point B.

God bless you DSW for somehow maintaining.

+1 +1 +1 +1

When I left the US last time, they took the fucking Jello pudding still in the package that I got my kids as a snack on the trip. MFs! Japan is just as bad, those Japan TSA f*ckers took the cans of coke I bought at duty free in Saipan with the last of my US change. In transit and they took my damn coke? Avoid Japan like you avoid the US.

swdchile wrote:Second letter and another averted response by AA:

Dear AA,

Thank you for your response regarding this incident; however, given my interactions with the AA staff in the Santiago airport, I believe it fails to explain to me why I was deplaned. Perhaps it would be better for me to ask a few questions instead of simply stating my side of the event.
1. Would you please review the inflight personnel's report and let me know specifically what my actions were that had them state “there were indications that you gave the appearance of intoxication?”
2. Is it AA’s policy to provide room and board to passengers that are too intoxicated to fly? If you “are prohibited from boarding anyone who has the appearance of intoxication” and “the appearance of a passenger is all-important,” why was I afforded the courtesy of overnight room and board by the on-duty safety/security manager?
3. Since you state that “we are not required to discern intoxication by any scientific means,” does this not open the possibility that an incorrect decision may have been made in my case?
4. Did you review the report submitted by the on-duty safety/security manager’s office and would you please let me know what it says? I was assured that it would be made clear in the report that after interviewing me, the safety/security manager believed I was fit to fly.
Mr. X, I am not trying to get anything out of this except a better explanation as to why I was deplaned. I understand the tremendous pressure inflight personnel are under during boarding, but in this case I believe the decision have me deplane was incorrect. And upon your further review, if in fact it was possibly an incorrect decision, I would like the inflight personnel of AA flight number AA940 on 1/14/12 to be made aware of this fact.
Once again, thank you for your time and consideration,

The response to my second letter(talk about dodging the question):

Dear SWDChile:
We are in receipt of your follow-up letter regarding our exchange of communication over your January 13 experience in Santiago. Given that you have contacted us again, we've taken a fresh look at the matter.

While we understand that you received a certain amount of support from our Passenger Service staff in Santiago, please know that they were not onboard flight 940 and were not witness to the same perspective that our crew members held. Any amenities the Santiago staff afforded you were based on factors that did not include what our crew members experienced. A corporate complaint resolution official was consulted and upheld the crews' decision to have you removed. We appreciate your understanding that we must abide by the considered opinion and decision of our crew members in situations such as this, when all relevant actions and observations occur onboard and out of view of our airport personnel. Relevant reports remain the internal property of American Airlines and our policy does not permit us to share them with persons outside the company.

Thank you for this additional opportunity to share our perspective.