What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

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What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by admin » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:07 am

This week we have a meeting scheduled with a key senator about the new immigration law. Without naming the senator specifically, they are about as politically in the center as you get on this issue; and, sufficiently influential to be able to get things changed. We also got the meeting through contacts that are sufficiently politically influential, that I believe we have the senator's undivided attention.

We have our own laundry list of issues to discuss regarding migration, immigrants, and the new migration law pending in Congress.

However, I want to hear what suggestions, problems, issues, members of the forum would like us to bring-up in the meeting.

I am not promising anything, but simply want to see if we are missing anything critical.

Please keep this focused on the subject of the new immigration law, or very closely related. We don't have time to discuss the wider gripes or problems with chile. Those will have to wait for another day.

We have until Monday to put together our talking points.
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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by Huelshoff » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:48 am

Having just completed the process (applied for and received visa abroad, picked up my carnet on Wednesday), I'd say that the biggest problem I faced was inconsistent information and the obscurity of the process. As many have noted, the consulates abroad are not well and consistently informed about the law, and there is no set of clear instructions describing the process once you are in country. Without the experience of the contributors to this blog (a shout out to Britkid in particular), and the help of my Chilean wife, I doubt that I would have been able to get to this point in the two months since I arrived in country. So, from my experience I'd say train up those who are responsible for processing applications and get better information out to the public. That assumes, of course, that the government wants to make the process more efficient.

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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by 41southchile » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:08 am

The system is screwed, inefficient, slow, contradictory, and not fit for purpose in the world we live in today. As the above post mentioned, better training, clearer processes that can all be found in one place and clear rules, like a points based system, and not dependent on the burrocrats mood that day. There's no need to reinvent the wheel, other countries like NZ and Australia manage it. Have a small humanitarian quota, and the rest have to have enough points, eg, to be eligible you need 100 points (which can change depending on the circumstances of the economy) e g 20 points for age, 20 points for qualifications, 20 points if you live in provinces, 20 points if you bring x amount of money, you get the idea.
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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by Spudzilla » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:40 pm

Surely it must be possible to create some sort of a verifiable process to to accept applications for residencia definativa. Appreciating the tremendous enthusiasm in Chile for stamping documents, incoming applications might be affixed with a time and date stamp indicating that your application has been received. It would appear that the applications sit around for months in a mail bin somewhere. In the meantime your residencia temporaria is clearly expired on your carnet. No one really seems to acknowledge that you are in some sort of a process. You are simply presenting an expired carnet. For all anyone knows I could have mailed a candy wrapper to the extranjeria.

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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by Putenio » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:59 pm

This one is a repeat, but worth it.

We've been in Chile for over 10 years, presence in Chile for coming up on 30 years, RUT number in the 14.XXX.XXX

We are eligible for citizenship - but the certificate of antecedentes from the USA, the process, and the time limit to get it all done is an challenge. While a letter explaining the feasibility on that time limit could go with it, in our experience the power of the desk by the individual pushing paperwork kills it.

So logically, since we have over 10 years documented in Chile, why not ask us for a Chilean certificate of antecendentes, fines especiales, like one used in education - which covers everything including domestic violence issues - be required? Perhaps in addition to one from the FBI (w/an extension of time, for example, but adding information that prior to 2009 in the USA there was also nothing in the system on us), but giving preference to the Chilean document (which is simple to get in the time frame required). The valid date of the Chilean document might help get around the individual interpretation of the person with the power of the desk. The PDI can produce a report on all exits and entries to also support the time period of presence.

Chile wants us to invest here - but that one issue is a challenge.
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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:30 pm

A money in the bank visa. Not everyone is doing something under a formal wok contract, earning rental income, earning a pension, working for a foreign employer or themselves, generating a consistent monthly periodic income or married to a Chilean.
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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by 41southchile » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:36 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:30 pm
A money in the bank visa. Not everyone is doing something under a formal wok contract, earning rental income, earning a pension, working for a foreign employer or themselves, generating a consistent monthly periodic income or married to a Chilean.
Good idea, that's where a points based system could work, got money in the bank, or offshore income and spending x amount of pesos a month from offshore (easy enough to track) you get 90 points 5 points for clear health check , and police clearance etc. And your in.
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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by at46 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:47 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:08 am
The system is screwed, inefficient, slow, contradictory, and not fit for purpose in the world we live in today. As the above post mentioned, better training, clearer processes that can all be found in one place and clear rules, like a points based system, and not dependent on the burrocrats mood that day. There's no need to reinvent the wheel, other countries like NZ and Australia manage it. Have a small humanitarian quota, and the rest have to have enough points, eg, to be eligible you need 100 points (which can change depending on the circumstances of the economy) e g 20 points for age, 20 points for qualifications, 20 points if you live in provinces, 20 points if you bring x amount of money, you get the idea.
Those Venezuelans you're hiring for your new business, would they qualify under a points based system? I don't think so.

Immigration in Australia/Canada/New Zealand is a multibillion government enterprise, in some aspects almost merging on human-trafficking. My immigrant friends in Canada just won a lottery, yes, a lottery, to bring her elderly mom in. How humane is that? Chile is pretty unique in the world being open to new people and should stay that way.

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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by 41southchile » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:12 pm

at46 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:47 pm
41southchile wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:08 am
The system is screwed, inefficient, slow, contradictory, and not fit for purpose in the world we live in today. As the above post mentioned, better training, clearer processes that can all be found in one place and clear rules, like a points based system, and not dependent on the burrocrats mood that day. There's no need to reinvent the wheel, other countries like NZ and Australia manage it. Have a small humanitarian quota, and the rest have to have enough points, eg, to be eligible you need 100 points (which can change depending on the circumstances of the economy) e g 20 points for age, 20 points for qualifications, 20 points if you live in provinces, 20 points if you bring x amount of money, you get the idea.
Those Venezuelans you're hiring for your new business, would they qualify under a points based system? I don't think so.

Immigration in Australia/Canada/New Zealand is a multibillion government enterprise, in some aspects almost merging on human-trafficking. My immigrant friends in Canada just won a lottery, yes, a lottery, to bring her elderly mom in. How humane is that? Chile is pretty unique in the world being open to new people and should stay that way.
Only one Venezuelan, only one, the rest are Chilean. I guess it depends on the criteria whether in a hypothetical situation he would qualify. University education check, relatively young check, not living in Santiago and creating more pressure on infrastructure check, a new job position created check, contributing to rural revival check, shall I go on?
So actually he probably would qualify, but would depend on the criteria which is established by the government at the time. Depending on what the country/economy needs. Not sure with what you mean by your comment that in some aspects is merging on human trafficking.
I'm unfamiliar with how it works in Canada, but in New Zealands case there is no lottery , once someone has gone through the process there is family reunification and dependents visas, no lottery.
Chile is pretty unique alright, but let's see how great it is to be unique in 5 to 10years time if they dont sort their immigration processes out in a orderly fashion (ok semi orderly fashion, it is Chile )
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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by Space Cat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:16 pm

In short: bring back straightforward immigration for remote workers like it was before when work contracts were accepted for the "rentista" visa.

Why bother?
According to some researches, only in the US 4 millions work remotely (3% of the workforce), so probably it's a few dozens of millions around the world. According to the Payoneer's survey of 21,000 freelancers, the average rate is $19/h, i.e. over $3,000 per month. But there are barely any countries (basically Canada and Germany) that accept self-employed immigrants who aren't rich enough to go via investor/business visas.

So Chile can step in and attract thousands of immigrants who don't occupy local jobs while earning at least 6x minimum wage and spending it locally, almost always in the regions (I can't imagine many remote workers settling in Santiago).

The current state
After the "work contract for the rentier visa" loophole was closed, remote workers go via shady routes: either set up some "passive income" to qualify for the rentier visa or search for a fake job offer in the immigrant groups to qualify for a professional visa.

Solution A
If the immigration law is not changing much, just add an "apostille of a foreign work contract" as an alternative to the Chilean job offer for the visa "para profesionales y técnicos de nivel superior". To prevent fraud, accept contracts only from the EU and the Five Eyes countries (the absolute majority of high earners works for those countries anyway).

Solution B
Create a separate "remote worker and freelancer visa" and promote it like Start-Up Chile before to get lots of people. (It would be perfect to not condition it with a uni degree because not every freelancer has a bachelor's but probably diplomas help to prevent fraud...)

Solution C
If a point-based system is going to be implemented, give some decent points for an apostille of a foreign work contract and money in the bank, so they can be used instead of the points from having a local job offer or knowing Spanish (because remote workers don't need to know the language well to immigrate).

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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by at46 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:39 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:12 pm
at46 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:47 pm
41southchile wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:08 am
The system is screwed, inefficient, slow, contradictory, and not fit for purpose in the world we live in today. As the above post mentioned, better training, clearer processes that can all be found in one place and clear rules, like a points based system, and not dependent on the burrocrats mood that day. There's no need to reinvent the wheel, other countries like NZ and Australia manage it. Have a small humanitarian quota, and the rest have to have enough points, eg, to be eligible you need 100 points (which can change depending on the circumstances of the economy) e g 20 points for age, 20 points for qualifications, 20 points if you live in provinces, 20 points if you bring x amount of money, you get the idea.
Those Venezuelans you're hiring for your new business, would they qualify under a points based system? I don't think so.

Immigration in Australia/Canada/New Zealand is a multibillion government enterprise, in some aspects almost merging on human-trafficking. My immigrant friends in Canada just won a lottery, yes, a lottery, to bring her elderly mom in. How humane is that? Chile is pretty unique in the world being open to new people and should stay that way.
Not sure with what you mean by your comment that in some aspects is merging on human trafficking.
One rarely cited statistic is that 40% of immigrants to Canada leave within the first year, having obviously paid landing fees to the government, airfare to Air Canada and all kinds of costs once in the country, and then having to get out because they just can't make it. There's no logical reason to bring them in in the first place, other than to relieve them of their dough.

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Re: What would you tell a Chilean Senator about the new immigration law?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:46 pm

There's no logical reason to bring them in in the first place, other than to relieve them of their dough.
You mean the Cannucks can come up with scams on the level of the adept Argies :!: :P
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