Worth Getting Citizenship?

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Britkid
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Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by Britkid » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:22 pm

I have been reading through old threads on this forum and elsewhere, and thought I'd have a go at summing this up.

Reasons to do it
1. There may be unknown benefits in the future to being a citizen that don't exist today; you may be more secure in the country.
2. You can, as a citizen, leave for over a year, and still return with no further tramites required (not the case with only permanent residency).
3. If you have an extra passport, you can go to more countries. https://www.markuslerner.com/travelscope/ is a good site to check the list of countries that will let in a person of a given country without a visa. (However I already have my UK passport and it seems that there are very few countries that are easier to access with a Chilean passport. Iran and Russia are the most notable ones, in fact the only ones I saw at a quick look.)
4. If you lose a passport while abroad having another one will probably be an advantage.
5. Emotional reason - you may view it as some kind of achievement or recognition to be a citizen.
6. You are not going to be expelled from Chile for committing a serious crime if you are a citizen.
7. [Added 13th March]. Once you have got citizenship, you don't need to worry about losing the permanent resident piece of paper/card you need to renew your cedula/carnet, and you don't need to go the police office to get that certificate once every 5 years before renewing either.

Reasons not to do it
1. Time/stress/hassle of doing a long, time consuming annoying process of tramites for maybe a year or two. (I wonder with the recent waves of immigration whether getting nationality might be getting harder in 2019 - even though nationality applications won't be increasing, the overall workload of other parts of the department may have an effect. However if there are a lot of immigrants now in 2018-2019 does that mean that getting your nationality will get harder in 2022-2025, when more people have been here 5 years and can apply, and so better to do it now? Maybe, but just speculation.)
2. You may have to give up your citizenship of your own/original country. (However I think in practice this is not the case for many countries including the UK.)
3. You may get less support from your own embassy/consulate (or none) if you are a citizen of Chile. (Someone mentioned this, but I don't know how true it is in practice.)

Other Arguments
---Is there any advantage to having Chilean citizenship when it comes to ease of obtaining mortgages, buying property, getting loans, bank account or store cards. I've never heard this mentioned, so I'm guessing not?
---Any other pros and cons anyone can think of?

Where?
One thing I wasn't sure of: where exactly can you do this. Is Santiago the only place in the metropolitan region where you can do this? And then maybe 1 major town in each of the regions at a guess? But couldn't find the answer to that question.

Stories?
Anyone want to share why they did/didn't do it?
For those that went through the process, if you had to chose again, would you still bother?

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admin
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by admin » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:26 pm

just a couple other quick thoughts.

you apply through the immigration office in the jurisdiction where you reside.

make sure you renew your perment residency and ID, before you apply for citizenship.

really i find traveling on my chilean passport a lot less hassel in a lot if circumstances, but at least no harder than my u.s. passport in most. for instance no visa to russia. no need for reciprocity fees for countries that have (had) them for u.s. citizens (brazil, argentina, etc). a lot of my travel in recent years has been around south america, and a chilean permanent resident I.D. is all that is needed for most of that.

i still take a passport with as backup, but nice to say leave the passport in the safe at the hotel, and just walk around with the chilean I.D. on my pocket.

i have not renew my u.s. passport in years, because i realy have no need for it. however, now i am kind of getting to the point where if i don't renew my expired passport, it becomes a hassel.

i have never heard of anyone getting less service at an embassy because they had more than one citizenship. in fact i can not recall anyone mentioning that they were even asked. multiple citizenships are so common these days, it is not a big deal. of course depends on the country (e.g. china officialy does not recognize other citizenships, but unofficially seems to ignore it).
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by paladin » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:59 pm

When I was going through the nightmare of renewing my PR last year, which resulted in my having to go to Talca to avoid sleeping on the street outside the PDI place in Santiago, the PDI man asked why I didnt just get citizenship and done with to avoid any further nightmares in 5 years time. I checked into the tramites and flund them to be very time consuming, but also the requiremenr for the police cert was impossible to comply with. It seems I need to get a police cert from the UK, then get it apostilised in the UK, then get it translated and cerified by the ministry of the exterior here and presented to immigration all within 20 days of the date on the original UK police cert. All of this would be impossible in 20 days, so I gave up the idea. As Britkid mentioned, if you hold a UK passport , there really are no meaningful advantages of having Chilean citizenship. One disadvantage of citizenship is that if by chance you have assets outside Chile when you die, and these were acquired before residency in Chile, they are not included as part of your estate. This doesnt apply if you become a citizen.

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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by Putenio » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:40 pm

We also took a look at it and the 20 day rule on the police certification killed it. I can't see how to pull that off with out serious assistance and coordination.

If/when the Chile Gov. asks admin again about immigration issues, perhaps this will be one that gets mentioned. If we haven't been living in the USA for more than 10 years, and we can show those same 10 years we've been here - wouldn't it make *logical* sense to get a certificado de antecedentes here?

Regarding the estate topic, fwiw/fyi a will registered in front of the notary - the actual notary as it is a formal appt. - with two long term known witnesses - can let you divide your estate in a way that can benefit your spouse. It gets registered w/ SII and Registro Civil. You do need a lawyer to prepare the documents and be present at the will appt. You do have to have your marriage registered here (which is a process in itself) or you can just pay the 9000 pesos or so and have a small civil ceremony at the Registro Civil - problem solved.
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by admin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:10 am

One disadvantage of citizenship is that if by chance you have assets outside Chile when you die, and these were acquired before residency in Chile, they are not included as part of your estate. This doesnt apply if you become a citizen.
first, the 20 day rule is stupid, and immigration knows it. what you might have become an axe murderer in the last 20 days?

just attach a letter explaining it is not possible to obtain a certificate from your jurisdiction in less than 20 days. call it "resonably recent" will do. hell no one is probably going read it for 6 months.

don't know where you got the whole thing about your assets being excluded from your estate.

the law / principle at play of "last domicile" applies to your estate in international law, and you do not need to even be a citizen. even a tourist in theory that dies in chile could have their estate fall under chilean law, if a case can be made that they were more than just a tourist (e.g. lived here for 20 year, owned house, etc).

in fact, suprise, suprise, it does sort of work that way, but in your favor and probably the source of misunderstanding. your assets prior to becoming a resident are excluded from the inheritance tax in chile (very long story).

still nothing to do with citizenship directly. the laws apply to perment residents just as much as citizens.
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by lost gringo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:36 am

Does anyone know if having three passports from three different countries is possible or even legally permitted?
I have two others now, don't really need the Chileno passport which would be the third but Chile is my principal country of residence now.
I'm concerned, as others here have pointed out, that there may be problems in the future with only having permanent residency in Chile.

The tramite for citizenship doesn't sound very appealing to me either.
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by Britkid » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:36 pm

paladin wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:59 pm
When I was going through the nightmare of renewing my PR last year, which resulted in my having to go to Talca to avoid sleeping on the street outside the PDI place in Santiago, the PDI man asked why I didnt just get citizenship and done with to avoid any further nightmares in 5 years time.
You had to renew because you had been out of the country for a year?

I believe if you stay in the country the PR, or permanent residence, is genuinely permanent, and doesn't last for 5 years or have to be renewed.
It seems that if you stay in country it's just a case of renewing your RUT/cedula/carnet, which you have to do anyway even as a citizen.

Just checking...

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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:18 pm

In-country, you have to go to PDI first to get the document to renew your PD carnet (every 5 years) at the RC. But yes, in-country you can let your carnet expire with no immigration status impact.
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by admin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:34 pm

yes, it is your ID you are renewing inside the country, not your residency. although if you loose your letter granting residency it can feel like you are renewing your residency trying to get a new one.

that same letter must be submitted for your citizenship aplication, thus why it becomes a problem if say you have 6 months left on your ID and need to renew it after it was surrendered.

i guess they long ago thought processing citizenship was a one day or one week process.no one ever thought the shear number of people would turn that in to a two year wait.

there is probably the biggest reason to get citizenship: they could someday change the law.

even if you had plenty of time to see the change coming, imagine how many other people will be applying that also put off applying.
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by admin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:40 pm

regarding number of passports, three is not only legal it is not that special either.

i had girlfriend from Europe years ago with 5 passports.

i got a friend now that has u.s., spanish, mexican, and dutch citizenship. in short order Chilean citizenship. think he only keeps up on two passpprts, just for costs reasons.
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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by paladin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:30 pm

Sorry, when I mentioned I needed to renew my PR, I was referring to my cedula.

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Re: Worth Getting Citizenship?

Post by paladin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:44 pm

Admin, I’m confused by you comments anout assets being subject/not subject to estate taxes here. The article that I referred to specifically relates to “ extranjeros” who acquired assets outside of Chile from funds that originated outside Chile. This therefore dors not appear to apply to citizens as well. Is that how you read it also ?

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