Electricity costs out in the country

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mem
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Electricity costs out in the country

Post by mem » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:42 pm

Im out in the country in region 9, caburgua area
Im paying around 135 CLP per KwH.

What are you other country dwellers paying per KwH?

With all these solar and hydro electricity projects that Chile has going on...are we going to see decreasing costs for electricity per KwH any time soon or even midterm?

I know most of the electricity generation is in the desert north...does that make for higher electricity costs in the south due to proximity or is it roughly the same water level with national distribution?

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fraggle092
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:45 pm

mem wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:42 pm
With all these solar and hydro electricity projects that Chile has going on...are we going to see decreasing costs for electricity per KwH any time soon or even midterm?
That is not how it has turned out anywhere else so far:
...The notion that renewable electricity is cheap is one of a number of Green Myths that have been woven into a gigantic Green lie...
http://euanmearns.com/green-mythology-a ... ectricity/

By my reckoning, Chilean electricity prices reflecting increasing future renewables utilization would be a line running parallel to and above the mean shown on the graph:

europeelectricprice.png
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admin
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by admin » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:42 pm

In the big city of frutillar, it is 129.75 per kw.

That is not including the other fees. There is over 35,000 peso in other fees on my bill for like community acess and so on.

Saesa is a crappy company all the way around. It was actuelly voted the worse company in the country a few years ago, and that takes some talent considering all the crappy run companies in chile.

There is also some bullshit calculation they do for winter, based on your average consumption. Im getting just ripped off by it, because the house i am in was not occupied last year.
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fraggle092
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:23 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:42 pm
There is also some bullshit calculation they do for winter, based on your average consumption.
They calculate the winter limit based on summer consumption.

Just did the sums, with IVA included. (Latest bill,CGE, La Serena)
CGE is the company that hugely screwed up their billing program a few years ago.
Million peso plus bills were not uncommon for a while. I got one, and ended up paying a sizeable fraction of it.

Regular usage: $130.6/KWh

Overconsumption: $172.42/KWh (Over winter limit) Thats 32% more.

They also include an approximate 10% delivery charge.

And the water companies do the same thing in the summertime.
Why? Because they can. Supply and demand.

Anyone who tells you that electricity is going to get cheaper here, including government ministers who should know better, is seriously deluded.
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mem
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by mem » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:03 pm

I did the calculation on the total bill divided by the total KwH's..so it looks like most of us are paying about the same around 130sh. Yeah its not great considering thats like about 21cents USD per KwH and i hear other places in the world are getting in the range of 8-13 cents USD per KwH.

Im doing some heavy-duty home supercomputing and so im using some pretty serious power utilization. Im even wondering if using a diesel generator would be cheaper to handle my surplus computing power needs

I do hope that with increasing national electricity supply will eventually lower the cost for grid KwH to some extent, but I understand the cynicism around that notion

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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by admin » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:54 am

Yea i am on the verge of breaking down and putting in solar panels. Kind of waiting to see later this year as china has a lot over capacity hanging around and might start dumping panels on the global market.
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bert.douglas
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by bert.douglas » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:42 pm

Helpful article.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... n-the-grid

You are at the same latitude as Orick California. About the same annual rainfall. Same average daily temperature. But you have more rainy days. So going by that article, your LCOE (levelized cost of electricity) will be about $0.30 per kilowatt-hour. I think this includes batteries. But it will take 30 years to get back your investment. I am skeptical about promises that a solar panel (or power inverter, or battery) will last 30 years.

However, eventually it is certain that solar will be cheaper than oil.

And there is a benefit from decentralization and local autonomy, separate from the price.

When someone knocks on your door and offers to install a solar power system on your house, if you just sign the contract (to buy electricity for less than your current rate), then you will know that solar power is really cheaper.

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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by hlf2888 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:36 pm

My electric bill runs about 33,000 pesos for 2 months. My hydro company is Emelectric but they recently changed their name to CGE. I live in the country in the 7th region and during the epic fire storm of 2017 all the hydro poles were burned or damaged. There was no electricity for almost 4 weeks. A few days after the fire storms subsided, some technicians from CGE came to the sanctuary and dropped off a generator and fuel. They showed me how to use it, and left a generator and fuel for the caretaker's home also. They never asked if you were rich or poor. If you were without power, you got a generator and fuel. Everyday they would visit to see how everyone was and to drop off more fuel. Saturdays they left enough fuel for Sunday, the one day they did not visit. When the power was restored, they visited one last time and retrieved their generators. I was totally impressed. I was in an ice storm in Canada, no electricity for 4 weeks in winter. Generators were sold out within a day or two and the hydro company did not help anyone. They certainly did not offer generators to those without power. People had to go to shelters for warmth or light. The rich got generators and the poor got nothing. I love Chile and this is one of the reasons why. Where is the love icon when you need it?

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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by admin » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:49 am

Yea there is a continuty of service law in chile that requires the power companies to provide electricity alternatives and to compensate customers for outage, i believe it is over 12 hours of outage.

We have regular outgaes a couple times a year from storms and just maintence work. I think once in like 5 years we got a refund on our bill for being out over 12 hours, because the power company is super serious about getting everyone connected A.S.A.P. and limiting outages due to the fines.
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by admin » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:26 am

Yea i have been debating the ins and outs of solar. I have a friend that owes me a favor and does solar installations. Has offered to do a system setup at cost for the hardware, and his company has a contract with the power company for them to buy back the excess juice if they certify the installation.

We are running about 50,000 a month, including the shared eletric for the community water well that is split among all of our neighbors and shows up on our bill. My wife likes her drier. My house keeper likes it even more. Probably cheaper to start by giving them a place hang laundry in the rainy season.

Besides the independance from the grid, i really can not justify the cost yet. I have about million other little energy saving things to do my house first that would lower our energy. Like i might put in a solar hot water pre-heater. Our heat and hot water is a inline gas calderia, and i figure even just preheating the water 10 or 20 degrees or more would save a pile of money. Most of the year we should not even need the gas heater to kick over. It has fairly sofisticated water temp sensor in it.

There are all sorts of plans out on the internet for building them, for like 20,000 pesos in materials. I probably got all the materials in my garage. Just need the time to get to that pet project.

Of course, never have too much insulation. I keep looking at the house and seeing a million ways to improve the insulation.

Swapping all the lights with LED is already underway. Renovated the kitchen and calculated i went from around a 1000 watts down to less than 100 watts, with better lighting.

If i get all those done and i am still sucking energy, then ill take a look at the solar panel system. Really, for emergencies, i dont need a full blown system. Perhaps run the refrigerator and the a bunch of low draw eltrical devises (tv, cell phones, lap tops) is the biggest must have items in the house, so i might start with a smaller system and batteries.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

mem
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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by mem » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:49 pm

We have two passive solar hot water heaters on top of the house. Each is 250liters, one is for the kitchen and two baths and the other is for the master bath. When there is enough sun its awesome. Can take silly long hot showers with no problem of running out of hot water and its hot hot water.

The downside is when there is no sun or no sun for weeks then we have to switch over to the gas califonts.
The other downside is that the system requires electricity to cycle the water in and out of the solar water heater. If its hot outside and there is no electricity for long enough then something has to be done to release pressure. It hasnt happened yet, so not sure how much of a hassle it is.

If you dont use gas for anything but cooking (not for califonts) its amazing how long it lasts. Gas califonts are like blow torches and just eat gas like crazy. We were in a house with 2 califonts, again 1 doing hot water in the kitchen and 2 baths and the other doing the master bath. We were going through 1x45kg tank every 20 days! Now with the passive rooftop solar water heaters we go through 1x45kg tank every 6 months. It is stunning

Passive solar hot water is really the best/most efficient way to break into solar because it doesnt require batteries. The energy is stored in the water itself. Plus you dont lose energy in coverting from thermal/radiant energy to electric energy. Its just direct radiant heat, heating up the water in the rooftop tubes.

Once one does go to a solar electric battery system, you still have to rely on the grid and/or diesel generator for the many fays and weeks of the year there is not enough sun. I do think its quite possibly cheaper to generate electricity from diesel versus grid, once the initial investment is recouped. 5 liters apparently lasts like 18 hours provided you are using most of the output or at least storing the unused excess in batteries for later use.

It does all start to add up to do really do it right. Id like to get a non-portable diesel generator with noise shielding casing built on a small cement foundation inside a little generator shack with a large supply of diesel storage either on additional slabs or in ground tanks

I've also wondered about small wind turbines...most everyone says they have to be like 80ft in the air and its dangerous to climb them to service them, etc...i just really wonder if a much shorter pivoting wind turbine would at least provide a somewhat constant trick of energy to keep batteries charged, even if it was only 20 or 30ft high in thr backyard. I know in region 9 we have wind almost all the time...seemingly more reliable than sun. But whenever i wax optimistic about it I get shot down pretty quick saying it wont work or wont be worth it. Sigh

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Re: Electricity costs out in the country

Post by Julito » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:11 pm

You might consider a micro hydro system Matt. From memory you're on a river?

I googled it and these days it looks pretty straight forward plus far cheaper than an effective wind turbine. The big advantage is it generates 24/7.

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