chile's migration crisis

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:10 am

Then let the good times roll and let the chips fall where they may. A given anyhow depending on each circumstance...

---a non whitey expat with no employees
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One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 am

well here is a fairly happy tail for a change of Venezuela's doctors taking up unwanted public health care positions in the patagonia.

https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/doctor ... hile/95425
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:29 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 am
well here is a fairly happy tail for a change of Venezuela's doctors taking up unwanted public health care positions in the patagonia.

https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/doctor ... hile/95425
Exactly, lots of folk fail to see the upside or the other opportunities created from immigration to improve quality of life for Chileans, they all too often get sucked into and are influenced by populist rhetoric and by politicos doing nothing but something for their own ambition . Just on a side note in my 30 years or so in New Zealand I think I would have maybe had 50 percent of my doctors being born in NZ (probablyless thinking about it) , South African GPs, Sri Lankan and Indian dentists, English specialists , etc etc .
Now I know it's not in the same life saving league as a doctor, but still quite important, if only we could get quality plumbers here(from wherever), no one in Chile wants to be a plumber here in Los Lagos region it seems, the ones that do it are generally shit. Seriously.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:12 pm

41southchile wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:29 pm

Now I know it's not in the same life saving league as a doctor, but still quite important, if only we could get quality plumbers here(from wherever), no one in Chile wants to be a plumber here in Los Lagos region it seems, the ones that do it are generally shit. Seriously.
Its the same all over. Sedentary work is easier and has more "status", that seems to be the underlying thinking.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:15 am

well here is the government's estimate of foreigners living in the country:

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 14259.html

I am having real hard time getting those numbers past the smell test.

los lagos for instance. they are reporting like 20,000 foreigners in the region.

I simply can not buy that.

just from a ruff statistical sampling, we have probably about 50 forum members (not all active, or simply read and never post) from los lagos and their families. some of the families are fairly large. I have not tried to count recently, but together it is probably a couple hundred people.

little frutillar, population about 15,000 people, alone has at least 1,000 foriegners living here.

the entire region has a super big population of argentineans, probably many are on tourist Visa but live in chile. never mind all the argentinean dual chilean citizenship people. many people have family on both sides of the boarder here. Puerto varas and osorno have a lot of argentineans.

little Futa in the patagonia, probably 10 to 30% of the population, depending on time if year, is foriegners. not just tourist, but people that work there, have families, own fly fishing and white water type lodges, etc.

that is all besides a good size population of Venezuelans, Haitians, some Colombian, nationals, etc.

meanwhile, we know of many people that have residency in chile, and are out of the country for various reasons. some are never coming back to live. some are out for seasonal or short-term job reasons, travel, etc. however, trolling through government records, the government would not be able to determine one way or the other where they are.

hell, over the years we have run hundreds of foreigners through our local regional immigration office, just for convenience, for all sorts of reasons. many of those people live in other parts of the country, or do not live in chile at all anymore. often they were in chile and applying for residency only for beucratic legal reasons (e.g. inheritance, child custody cases, buisness). At one point, the local PDI office just quit calling when they seen our office address and phone number on an immigration application, because they knew they were one of our clients. They knew we could account for their whereabouts, and that was a pile of aplications they did not need to physically go check.

along the same line, are they even counting people anymore that are foriegn born but have gained citizenship after 5 years?

point is, the whole set of statistics just does not square well with our observations. which makes me wonder just how far off the mark the rest of the national statistics might be.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:14 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:15 am
well here is the government's estimate of foreigners living in the country:

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 14259.html

I am having real hard time getting those numbers past the smell test.

los lagos for instance. they are reporting like 20,000 foreigners in the region.

I simply can not buy that.

just from a ruff statistical sampling, we have probably about 50 forum members (not all active, or simply read and never post) from los lagos and their families. some of the families are fairly large. I have not tried to count recently, but together it is probably a couple hundred people.

little frutillar, population about 15,000 people, alone has at least 1,000 foriegners living here.

the entire region has a super big population of argentineans, probably many are on tourist Visa but live in chile. never mind all the argentinean dual chilean citizenship people. many people have family on both sides of the boarder here. Puerto varas and osorno have a lot of argentineans.

little Futa in the patagonia, probably 10 to 30% of the population, depending on time if year, is foriegners. not just tourist, but people that work there, have families, own fly fishing and white water type lodges, etc.

that is all besides a good size population of Venezuelans, Haitians, some Colombian, nationals, etc.

meanwhile, we know of many people that have residency in chile, and are out of the country for various reasons. some are never coming back to live. some are out for seasonal or short-term job reasons, travel, etc. however, trolling through government records, the government would not be able to determine one way or the other where they are.

hell, over the years we have run hundreds of foreigners through our local regional immigration office, just for convenience, for all sorts of reasons. many of those people live in other parts of the country, or do not live in chile at all anymore. often they were in chile and applying for residency only for beucratic legal reasons (e.g. inheritance, child custody cases, buisness). At one point, the local PDI office just quit calling when they seen our office address and phone number on an immigration application, because they knew they were one of our clients. They knew we could account for their whereabouts, and that was a pile of aplications they did not need to physically go check.

along the same line, are they even counting people anymore that are foriegn born but have gained citizenship after 5 years?

point is, the whole set of statistics just does not square well with our observations. which makes me wonder just how far off the mark the rest of the national statistics might be.
Maybe they should have carried on with Allende's information gathering project to keep a better eye on things then.

https://www.americasquarterly.org/conte ... lism-chile
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:40 pm

Yea, I read that.

Allende, whatever else he might have been, was a frigen nut job.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:18 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:40 pm
Yea, I read that.

Allende, whatever else he might have been, was a frigen nut job.
Possibly, although not the first and probably not the last that thinks they can control society through gathering "information".
As Adam Smith said in "Theory of moral sentiments" :

The man of system, on the contrary, is apt to be very wise in his own conceit; and is often so enamoured with the supposed beauty of his own ideal plan of government, that he cannot suffer the smallest deviation from any part of it. He goes on to establish it completely and in all its parts, without any regard either to the great interests, or to the strong prejudices which may oppose it. He seems to imagine that he can arrange the different members of a great society with as much ease as the hand arranges the different pieces upon a chess-board. He does not consider that the pieces upon the chess-board have no other principle of motion besides that which the hand impresses upon them; but that, in the great chess-board of human society, every single piece has a principle of motion of its own, altogether different from that which the legislature might chuse to impress upon it. If those two principles coincide and act in the same direction, the game of human society will go on easily and harmoniously, and is very likely to be happy and successful. If they are opposite or different, the game will go on miserably, and the society must be at all times in the highest degree of disorder.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:34 pm

speak of the devil. you want enamored with socialism, here is a great article about a Venezuelan in Argentina, and how the socialist there simply can not accept that there is anything wrong in Venezuela.

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2019/ ... e-reality/
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 pm

That's why in the old days Religion and Politics were avoided in what used to be called Polite Conversation....
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:00 am

i previously posted somewhere about visit to the Argentinan book stores. even the architectural books, had heavy socialist spin.

If there is one country in latin America that is likely to go full blown Venezuela, it is Argentina. We all know how that ends.

but this time will be diffrent. diffrent as in Argentina has been kicking a full default down the road for almost 20 years now. This time we might see a Argentina refugee crisis.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:41 pm

There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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