The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

[admin]

yea, the southern chile lots seem to be going for well under previous auctions.

might be fun to see if there is more action as people get their AFP money.

I am sure not everyone is a financial moron and heading out to drink their retirement savings away; just most people.

There were a few "parcelas" in the South going for reasonably low rates. Although with all things Chile, you really need to read the fine print and check on water rights and on the infrastructure for the area.

yea a lot of them were mostly the junk parcels being sold for like 1 million minimums, etc. no real development associated with those.

however, some of the others I know almost their entire titles history fairly well because I own a property down the road from them, and other lots have gone to auction before for higher prices. did not check the location of the particular parcel within the community, but the general prices had been going about 13 to 17 million before, and yesterday went for 11 million I believe. There was another one in the area that had no infrastructure associated with it. not a surprise it went cheap. in fact they probably paid too much.

[admin]

well, surprise, surprise, here comes the other shoe to drop from the commie congress: now they want full nationalization of AFP funds.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... iones.html

screw them.

All the morons that suppprt them, will still be in plaza itiallia in 20 years. They will go from protesting in plaza itialia to begging for change when they have zero pension.

They think they are poor now?

Think chile is unequal now?

Most of chileans supporting this shit, don't have clue what real poverty looks like. Keep it up idiots. You are going to get a crash course in extreme poverty, latin american style.

Do they really think pinera is going to donate 10% of his income to the communist party?

[hlf2888]

Jim Morrison said it well. Whoever controls the media, controls the minds.

[tiagoabner]

well, surprise, surprise, here comes the other shoe to drop from the commie congress: now they want full nationalization of AFP funds.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... iones.html

screw them.

All the morons that suppprt them, will still be in plaza itiallia in 20 years. They will go from protesting in plaza itialia to begging for change when they have zero pension.

They think they are poor now?

Think chile is unequal now?

Most of chileans supporting this shit, don't have clue what real poverty looks like. Keep it up idiots. You are going to get a crash course in extreme poverty, latin american style.

Do they really think pinera is going to donate 10% of his income to the communist party?

Guess who'll go "screw this shit, I'll withdraw as much as I can before they gobble my money" if this crap moves forward?

Anyone with two brain cells, that's who.

[Jamers41]

well, surprise, surprise, here comes the other shoe to drop from the commie congress: now they want full nationalization of AFP funds.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... iones.html

screw them.

All the morons that suppprt them, will still be in plaza itiallia in 20 years. They will go from protesting in plaza itialia to begging for change when they have zero pension.

They think they are poor now?

Think chile is unequal now?

Most of chileans supporting this shit, don't have clue what real poverty looks like. Keep it up idiots. You are going to get a crash course in extreme poverty, latin american style.

Do they really think pinera is going to donate 10% of his income to the communist party?

Guess who'll go "screw this shit, I'll withdraw as much as I can before they gobble my money" if this crap moves forward?

Anyone with two brain cells, that's who.

Well of course........but I don't see how it could get the votes now to actually become law. Remember the 10% withdrawal law was passed after like half of the right's parlamentarians also voted for it.

In the future though (such as after next year's elections), who knows.

[fraggle092]

[
Well of course........but I don't see how it could get the votes now to actually become law. Remember the 10% withdrawal law was passed after like half of the right's parlamentarians also voted for it.

The 10% project was in violation of the Constitution, but wasn't passed for review by the Constitutional Tribunal.
And Piñera could have vetoed it as well, but he didn't exercise his presidential power.

The government is demoralized, its not governing any more, and is allowing the Opposition to call all the shots. So anything's possible right now. The Opposition's efforts are mostly aimed at toppling the present system and they have no scruples in proposing populist and damaging legislation if it helps to weaken the government, assisted in this task by turncoat officialist parliamentarians more interested in their political survival than in the national wellbeing.

That's why that cockroach, Senator Navarro, could threaten Piñera by openly declaring that if he vetoed the 10% project, he would have to abandon the Moneda in a helicopter. And why "autodonante" Diputado Giorgio Jackson could similarly threaten urban chaos with the renta-thug primera linea back on the streets again for the same reason. Another "spontaneous" estallido social was promised, or rather, threatened.

If I had known what a spineless git Piñera has turned out to be, I would have voted for Guillier instead. The result would have been the same, but without the destructive October shit show and probably without the awful public spectacle this Congress has displayed. The majority of the electorate who voted Piñera into power didn't want any of the horseshit that has happened since then.

So much for Chilean "democracy".

[Jamers41]

[
Well of course........but I don't see how it could get the votes now to actually become law. Remember the 10% withdrawal law was passed after like half of the right's parlamentarians also voted for it.

The 10% project was in violation of the Constitution, but wasn't passed for review by the Constitutional Tribunal.
And Piñera could have vetoed it as well, but he didn't exercise his presidential power.

The government is demoralized, its not governing any more, and is allowing the Opposition to call all the shots. So anything's possible right now. The Opposition's efforts are mostly aimed at toppling the present system and they have no scruples in proposing populist and damaging legislation if it helps to weaken the government, assisted in this task by turncoat officialist parliamentarians more interested in their political survival than in the national wellbeing.

That's why that cockroach, Senator Navarro, could threaten Piñera by openly declaring that if he vetoed the 10% project, he would have to abandon the Moneda in a helicopter. And why "autodonante" Diputado Giorgio Jackson could similarly threaten urban chaos with the renta-thug primera linea back on the streets again for the same reason. Another "spontaneous" estallido social was promised, or rather, threatened.

If I had known what a spineless git Piñera has turned out to be, I would have voted for Guillier instead. The result would have been the same, but without the destructive October shit show and probably without the awful public spectacle this Congress has displayed. The majority of the electorate who voted Piñera into power didn't want any of the horseshit that has happened since then.

So much for Chilean "democracy".

You seem to be reading a bit too much into the individual 10% project in terms of the current government's power (or lack thereof). First of all, it was not in violation of the current Constitution because it was actually a constitutional reform bill, not just a regular law. There was a point where one of the right senators (Allamand) was threatening to take it to the Constitutional Tribunal because of the quorom used to pass it (60%), but then it was passed by a 2/3rds majority in the Senate and then the same thing happened with the newest version of the law when it went back to the Chamber of Deputies (because some original absentee votes then voted for approval), so it became a moot point. Ultimately the congressional vote was more or less a reflection of the popular will, when multiple surveys indicated that 75% or 80% of the country supported the idea, there is nothing wrong with the congress voting likewise, even if you or I consider the idea to be a bad one, when something has such overwhelming support, it should pass, because that's what democracy is. It's one thing if a controversial idea has the support of 51%, but this was much more than that, because people believe that it's THEIR money in their accounts, which is also why I highly doubt that the same thing would happen so easily with a project to straight up nationalize the pension funds. Take a look at the comment section of El Mercurio, you will notice that most were in favor of the 10% and most are against the nationalization scheme. And I don't mean a slight majority.

Now as for your comment that Piñera turned out to be relatively weak, and your concern about threats of riots if he tried to veto the 10% project, yeah I agree. The idea of riots erupting again in the middle of a pandemic worried me a lot. I think Piñera in his head this time weighed the costs and found that it would be more damaging to the country to have an explosion of riots from vetoing the 10% project than from people taking out that money, even if it's not a good idea for long term financial health. Plus there are many people who will use the money to simply maintain their house and try to stay afloat and not drown in debt. Let's not lose sight of the fact that all this occurred because of a pandemic, it took a worldwide virus crippling global economic activity to come all the way to Chile and threaten an economic contraction of -10% to -15% just to summon the popular will to materialize a bill to withdraw 10% of people's AFP funds, and that was only after the government's tepid offers of "easy loans" for middle class individuals who had fallen on hard times. Contrast that with Peru, where they also have a private AFP pension system, and they have allowed multiple early withdrawals from individual accounts, and for more than 10% (the latest one was for 25%).

It has now become even more clear that the current pension system needs reform, and the opposition to Piñera is not all united about how to do that, as they are usually not all united about many other issues (like I have noted before). Hopefully some sort of change happens before Piñera leaves office, because it would probably be better than what pension reform could look like after next year's elections. For my part, I only voted in the first round of elections last time here, that will not happen again.

[admin]

so first day of withdrawal of AFP, and it is a mess.

just for fun I tried to withdraw mine, and the AFP web site of course crashed in some interesting ways throwimg errors I don't think I have seen before.

thousands of people standing in line across the country.

yea, exactly what the country should do in the middle of a pandemic.

[El Presidente]

so first day of withdrawal of AFP, and it is a mess.

just for fun I tried to withdraw mine, and the AFP web site of course crashed in some interesting ways throwimg errors I don't think I have seen before.

thousands of people standing in line across the country.

yea, exactly what the country should do in the middle of a pandemic.

I couldn´t do it earlier around 9am when it was all frozen up. I just tried again without any issues. I'm with Habitat by the way and it was really easy with their online form.

[admin]

the AFP are putting up bullshit front pages telling people they are in the "cue" to get in to their web site.

[admin]

[admin]

IT IS STATELESS YOU MORONS!!!