The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:40 pm

here is an experiment in how corruption might work in chile. I am sure there is some corruption, just most people dont know or are too cheap to engage in it, but most foriegners and Chileans at least paid a tip of some sort.

go to a restaurant for say more than a few times. same waiter situation.

now pay the normal tip of 10%

now go back a few more times. pay 15% tip.

next go back and pay a 20% tip, that most chileans, no matter how rich or how good the service might be, would never pay.

how often does your service improve by 100% doing that ?

That is why I say, if you are paying a bribe in chile you are a moron; and chances are it will just make a bad situation worse.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:53 pm

here is the problem with the mentality of chileans in half the country...

they think capitalism = right to steal whatever they want

and the other half thinks....

socialism = right to steal whatever they want

they want it both ways
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:43 pm

Well, if they go for "aprobamos" and two years or more of uncertainty which will massively reverse an already reversing economy and then allow a minority of commies to implement their agenda all in the color of "fuck the elites" "that will show them", then we are indeed all fucked.

Chileans must ask themselves what they are really really really asking for with irrational change.

Personally, I am leaning on standing down on my right to vote as I think things will be quite hot on April 26.
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One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:46 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:53 pm
here is the problem with the mentality of chileans in half the country...

they think capitalism = right to steal whatever they want

and the other half thinks....

socialism = right to steal whatever they want

they want it both ways
Bahahaha, doesn't everyone want it both ways?
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:24 pm
corruption, corruption, corruption bla, bla, bla.....

The only ones in chile with a greater imagination about the "corruption in chile" than the gringos, are the native born Chileans themselves.

Being an ignorant lazy fuck that can not figure out how to fix their own fucking problems is not the same as corruption.

corruption is driving down a highway, and being pulled over every 100 km for a bribe (and not a toll road).

corruption is buying votes openly on the street.

corruption is being able to buy a government contract with a small donation to a politician.

Right I'll play devils advocate.

Corruption is not only driving down the highway and being pulled up every 100km , it doesn't have a fixed definition, but its everywhere.
Why would the cops hold out their hand for a bribe here in Chile when they have been ingrained that there is an image to uphold, they dont generally. But move up the levels and seniority , and you will see the senior officials managed to take more than any of the foot soldiers on the front line ever could in a million lifetimes, that's corruption. What's the current total for the Pacogate scandal up to now? Over 66 million USD No corruption? Bahahahahahahaha.

Dont even start on the military/mining/pension funds/health/education or the inside wheeling and dealing that goes on in other state organizations. Yeah It's not visable everyday and it's not only corruption, it's the privileged information/insider trading, collusion , lack of competition enforcement, nepotism etc etc etc.

It's pretty easy to join the dots and see what's happening and why the country (fails to) functions the way it does.
Most of the time its uncovered which is good I guess, the press has been full of it for the last 10 years, but like drug seizures at the airports , whats caught is only 10 percent of what's going through.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:12 pm

hey, i grew up in the middle of this type of economic shot storm. my first trip to Latin America was in the middle of the 80s peso crisis in Mexico. I know how to protect myself, and how to make money too. the Argentineans and me are laughing at the Chilean stupidity.

keep going idiots, you are just making me far richer than i had planned on being at this point in my life.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:18 pm

41southchile wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm
admin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:24 pm
corruption, corruption, corruption bla, bla, bla.....

The only ones in chile with a greater imagination about the "corruption in chile" than the gringos, are the native born Chileans themselves.

Being an ignorant lazy fuck that can not figure out how to fix their own fucking problems is not the same as corruption.

corruption is driving down a highway, and being pulled over every 100 km for a bribe (and not a toll road).

corruption is buying votes openly on the street.

corruption is being able to buy a government contract with a small donation to a politician.

Right I'll play devils advocate.

Corruption is not only driving down the highway and being pulled up every 100km , it doesn't have a fixed definition, but its everywhere.
Why would the cops hold out their hand for a bribe here in Chile when they have been ingrained that there is an image to uphold, they dont generally. But move up the levels and seniority , and you will see the senior officials managed to take more than any of the foot soldiers on the front line ever could in a million lifetimes, that's corruption. What's the current total for the Pacogate scandal up to now? Over 66 million USD No corruption? Bahahahahahahaha.

Dont even start on the military/mining/pension funds/health/education or the inside wheeling and dealing that goes on in other state organizations. Yeah It's not visable everyday and it's not only corruption, it's the privileged information/insider trading, collusion , lack of competition enforcement, nepotism etc etc etc.

It's pretty easy to join the dots and see what's happening and why the country (fails to) functions the way it does.
Most of the time its uncovered which is good I guess, the press has been full of it for the last 10 years, but like drug seizures at the airports , whats caught is only 10 percent of what's going through.
I am with you on the waisted inefficient spending.

big old check on all the above for, the united states, uk, new New Zealand, <insert every country here>.

just the pòooooòiiooooor chileans think they are special. yep, they are that poor (or rich).
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:33 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:18 pm
41southchile wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm
admin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:24 pm
corruption, corruption, corruption bla, bla, bla.....

The only ones in chile with a greater imagination about the "corruption in chile" than the gringos, are the native born Chileans themselves.

Being an ignorant lazy fuck that can not figure out how to fix their own fucking problems is not the same as corruption.

corruption is driving down a highway, and being pulled over every 100 km for a bribe (and not a toll road).

corruption is buying votes openly on the street.

corruption is being able to buy a government contract with a small donation to a politician.

Right I'll play devils advocate.

Corruption is not only driving down the highway and being pulled up every 100km , it doesn't have a fixed definition, but its everywhere.
Why would the cops hold out their hand for a bribe here in Chile when they have been ingrained that there is an image to uphold, they dont generally. But move up the levels and seniority , and you will see the senior officials managed to take more than any of the foot soldiers on the front line ever could in a million lifetimes, that's corruption. What's the current total for the Pacogate scandal up to now? Over 66 million USD No corruption? Bahahahahahahaha.

Dont even start on the military/mining/pension funds/health/education or the inside wheeling and dealing that goes on in other state organizations. Yeah It's not visable everyday and it's not only corruption, it's the privileged information/insider trading, collusion , lack of competition enforcement, nepotism etc etc etc.

It's pretty easy to join the dots and see what's happening and why the country (fails to) functions the way it does.
Most of the time its uncovered which is good I guess, the press has been full of it for the last 10 years, but like drug seizures at the airports , whats caught is only 10 percent of what's going through.
I am with you on the waisted inefficient spending.

big old check on all the above for, the united states, uk, new New Zealand, <insert every country here>.

just the pòooooòiiooooor chileans think they are special. yep, they are that poor (or rich).
More than inefficient spending.

Yeah it is <insert every country here> to a lesser or greater degree, but theres only one country that's decided they should try and change their constitution, and all that that entails.

Fun fact about New Zealand, when I used to work at burger King in NZ while at uni we used to have a discount code on the register, 50 percent meal discount for anyone in uniform, police, fire, paramedics etc. Of course when there was a dodgy manager on he would offer it to his friends or family.
About 5 years ago I was reading online that BK and McDonald's had been ordered to stop the practice as it could be seen as a form of corruption, certainly no burgergate, but that's the level they go to, and the standards they expect. (maybe that's why they are percieved as the least corrupt in the world, Chile is number 26 btw) .

Of course corruption and fraud goes on still there, and during the earthquake recovery in Christchurch it was not uncommon unfortunately, but heavily persecuted and prosecuted
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:21 am

what I am talking about with the "imagined corruption" is there was a survey out a few weeks ago. something like 78% of chileans believe the country had pervasive corruption. even more screwed up, 30% of chileans thought it was o.k. to pay a bribe.

where the hell is all this magical corruption?

It is like this magical realism, where people let a break with reality drop in to their real life to make themselves feel better about how shitty their life is or something. we will just imagine there is all this corruption with a boot on our neck keeping us poor, so we don't really have to do anything about our situation.

why don't I have a new Ferrari or Porsche too? well, obviously it is because all of the corruption allowed that guy to get rich, and I am poor. so why bother trying. the corruption boogeyman will just keep me from ever succeeding anyway.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:43 am

yea, there is some corruption in chile, fraud, criminals, and lots of just 'good old boys' networks. welcome to living in a human society that has more than a couple tents to it.

what is far more common is chileans complete ignorance of how their own country functions.

I do have a great recent story about that.

got a client selling some property. he is contracting what was supposed to be "best real estate agents" in the area. there are three of them that work together.

so they setup a meeting with my wife, the owner, and these agents to go over the strategy.

It immediately becomes obvious these "real estate agents" don't know how titles and property ownership works in Chile, or anywhere else. not even the basics. then it becomes obvious as the conversation progresses that they don't understand how mortgages work either. how banks do title searches, appraisals, guarantees, foreclosures, auctions, etc. nothing. like I don't think they have ever bought a house for themselves, let alone anyone else.

so my wife, on the clients dime, has to spend two hours educating these "real estate agents" on real estate transfers and titles 101.

guess what?

after two hours of going over this with them, one asks a question that makes it extraordinarily obvious she did not understand a single thing my wife had told her.

The even sadder thing, that is not the first time we have had to educate real estate agents about how the real estate business works.

Point is, the vast amount of these people complaining about corruption, would not know corruption if it came up and bit them in ass. They are too stupid and / or ignorant of how the system "should work", to be able engage in some complex conspiracy to navigate around it by some even more complex special side channel.

ignorant, bumbling, lazy and / or just incompetence in Chile, that is extrordinarly common and pervasive throughout the entire country.

engaging in corruption, implies a certain minimal level of competence to start.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by admin » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:08 am

There are two really annoying myths that Chileans like to delude themselves with (and gringos they meet) that are very similar to their "corruption myth".

1. That by virtue of being issued a RUT number at birth, they somehow are experts in the law in Chile.

2. That by virtue of having been issued an RUT number at birth, and having once gone on vacation to Pucon or Vina as a kid, they "know" their entire country (in a geographic / cultural sense of "know").

Thus, why I say the vast majority of Chileans know nothing about how their country functions legally/ politically / beucraticaly nor do they "know" their country geographically / culturally.
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Re: The new constitutional vote and the social crisis

Post by 41southchile » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:19 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:08 am
There are two really annoying myths that Chileans like to delude themselves with (and gringos they meet) that are very similar to their "corruption myth".

1. That by virtue of being issued a RUT number at birth, they somehow are experts in the law in Chile.

2. That by virtue of having been issued an RUT number at birth, and having once gone on vacation to Pucon or Vina as a kid, they "know" their entire country (in a geographic / cultural sense of "know").

Thus, why I say the vast majority of Chileans know nothing about how their country functions legally/ politically / beucraticaly nor do they "know" their country geographically / culturally.
Be that as it may, there is still a vote coming up in April. Maybe , which was my friends point , a vote for change will give everyone an actual chance to become informed through the debate and discussion that will go on, (and it will go on, for years probably) Because with the amount of ignorance you claim exists in the country at the moment there is no way people can become educated in 2 months especially with all the yelling and screaming/scaremongering coming from both/all sides.
I'm no expert and dont want to call the way the vote will go, but I certainty don't see any sign of people stopping investing, either small or large companies, national and international.
Would they be doing that if they thought the sky was going to fall in after April?
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