State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
Forum rules
Moderation of this forum will be very strict compared to other sections of the Chile Forum. “Spamming”, “Trolling”, promotion of “fake news”, “conspiracy theories” or otherwise interfering with the dissemination of accurate information in this dedicated “Crisis Forum” will result in deletion of posts, and repeat offenders will have their accounts banned.
Britkid
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1973
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:59 pm
Location: Talagante area, Chile
Contact:

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Britkid » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:17 pm

I watched an interesting documentary on Netflix last night. Winter on Fire about the Ukraine protests of 2013-2014 where protestors succeeded in overthrowing a democratically elected but corrupt government after the government decided to ditch a deal for closer ties with the EU for one for ties to Russia. It's entirely from the protestors point of view and is biased but if you read this article while watching it, https://www.thenation.com/article/the-h ... r-on-fire/ , you would get some balance.

If you have Netflix, you might find the compare and contrast with Chile interesting, as well as just giving a sense as to what it was really like and some good visuals. Just don't use it as a lesson on Ukrainian politics.

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:24 pm

Britkid wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:17 pm
I watched an interesting documentary on Netflix last night. Winter on Fire about the Ukraine protests of 2013-2014 where protestors succeeded in overthrowing a democratically elected but corrupt government after the government decided to ditch a deal for closer ties with the EU for one for ties to Russia. It's entirely from the protestors point of view.
My running joke here is that if Piñera continues copying Yanukovich's playbook, he'll soon escape to Brazil and live under Bolsonaro's protection.

It all started with the Ukrainian police oppressing a small group of protestors. The more they pushed, the more people joined the cause while the president stayed completely tone deaf and blamed external forces for the social unrest. At some point he also tried to introduce heavier laws for protesting.

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:32 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:48 pm
The Carabineros are on the edge. Some fantastic leadership in this video.

https://twitter.com/LordHeller2022/stat ... 76160?s=20
A friend working in PDI told me earlier about police stations getting similar crowd provocations (with tons of people filming the reaction). The best resolution is to exit unarmed, without bulletproof vests and just wait.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20108
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:33 pm

On the violent protests, oh hell i use to go out to watch the mapuche kids protest in temuco like once a week.

formula was always the same.

peaceful protest, kids, old ladies, etc.

they disappeared from the street.

out came 5 to 10 punks, throwing rocks burning tires, etc

police would move in

fire tear gas. typically 10 cans for each of the 5 to 20 guys.

spectators would outnumber police and protesters, 100 to 1

wind would shift, and all of us protest spectators would run, as the entire city got a dose of gas.

rinse and repeat the following week.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:36 pm

There is one huge difference. Yanukovich was bogged in election corruption, or accusations of at least from 2004 until fleeing over more then one election. Whilst Pinera was voted in fairly, but just too little percentage of the population actually vote or know about democracy in Chile it seems. Back to the education again.

But I can see what you mean about escalation by security forces, especially reference the rubber pellets causing people to side with protestor action more.

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:47 pm

The election build up in the UK just took a bizarre turn. The second biggest party, as stands currently, has said they will give every home, free broadband internet if they are elected. Maybe Pinera should try something like this!

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20108
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:00 pm

no, the new president of bolivia did it right.

she comes out on tv, big crocodile tears, saying "protesters, please stop destroying our beautiful country."

i thought, pinera should try that.

then I thought, 'no, they would just say he was the pussy they always thought he was, and riot even more'.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20108
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:16 pm

o.k., time to put your dick on table to be cut off.


https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... -2020.html


if you are one of these pro socialist, pro communist, allende fantasy loving mother fuckers, that think the pc, ps, faa parties want to spend more....well....

the government asking congress for authorisation to take 9 billion dollars more in debt.

the left blocked it.

chile, because of the evil ass neoliberal 30 years, has a big ass credit card to spend.

and now, in the middle of all this shit, they want to be "fiscally responcible"

my back of the napkin calculations, chile could spend (in the right place) an easy 25 billion more without even raising the heckles of the credit rating agencies. hell, done right, it might even get upgraded. A G.I. bill type spending commitment on education for say the next ten years. just to start.

there are million ways to do this right.

but the "left" in chile is nobody's friend, but their own.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
ExpatBob
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1403
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:54 am
Location: Secret underground bunker
Contact:

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by ExpatBob » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:34 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:16 pm

but the "left" in chile is nobody's friend, but their own.
One sane act committed in thousands of years of historical failure does not a redemption make. Good on them, though.

User avatar
murf
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:00 pm
Location: chicagoish

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by murf » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:57 pm

vamoschile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:54 pm
murf wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:23 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:31 pm
murf wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:01 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:09 pm

Please define millions suffering? No food on their table , no house ? Persecution? What is your definition of millions suffering?
About 10 years ago I was struck down with cancer, I didn’t vote for it, I didn’t want it or ask for it.
I was not in pain for the doctors medicated me well, I did not hunger or want for shelter but what cancer took from me was what is most important to me, you or anybody for that matter, something which is a fundamental necessity of the human spirit, and that is hope. It took from me all my dreams and aspirations and left me in a void of ambiguity and disinterest.
The lower classes of Chile are struck by a cancer of sorts, sure, they may not hunger for food but as is inherent in all humans, they hunger for the chance for improvement and they have dreams and they hunger for the ability to achieve or fulfill their dreams.
Without the ability to dream and to have an opportunity to achieve their dreams, any people will be discontent.

Most average Chileans will never get to experience even a tenth of the adventures you or I have experienced.
Take away hope, and you destroy the individual.
I'm sorry to hear of your cancer and won't pretend to say I understand because I can only imagine but not appreciate what you went through.
Yes there is desperation, yes there is a lack of hope, in lots of places dont think I've denied any of that. Especially in homes racked by domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse, drowning in debt, sexual abuse. Bullying, family problems, sickness etc the list is long. Yes companies corporates etc have fucked over many, and the government has been complicit but there are still plenty that get ahead, that provide for their families, that educate their kids that just want to live a peaceful life , live within their means, participate in their communities, but not many of those people are calling for the destruction of civil society. Hope is relative I guess, the dreams are relative too. Whatever , Violence and intimidation of fellow citizens and destruction and theft of property is not a justified by what you say about a lack of hope. Property can be repaired, but the social consequences and hate and mistrust between citizens will not be fixed so quickly, if ever.
Not everyone wants adventure either, but how many are able to have more adventures now compared to say their parents generation. Rome wasn't built in a day, if its 30 years for shit to end up like this supposedly, it's not going to be sorted in 30 days, so where to now? Burn it all , and fuck everyone?
You are making the mistake of trying to conflate my desire to understand why this is happening with other people condoning of the actions.
Just because I desire to understand the motives doesn’t mean that I condone them or condone the violence.
I grew with the violence of the “troubles “ so trust me when I say that I do not in any way condone these actions. But I do understand them, furthermore, I’m not at all surprised by what is happening.
Now, the US for all it’s faults , the U.K., for all its faults, Australia, for all its faults etc etc are places where the ordinary joe soap has a shot at making it. There are no such odds in Chile and when someone like my wife leaves Chile with nothing, moves to a foreign country with nothing, not even the language and returns a decade later having “made it” then the people take note.
They take note due to their vast window to the world via the internet, they know there is better to be had and they know that they are getting the short end of the stick and judging by the attitude of the majority on this and other social media outlets, their concerns and grievances are not getting through so I suspect that we are in for a long period of unrest and disruption.
I don't know if I would totally agree with you. There is certainly a Chilean dream simmilar to the USA dream, the difference is semantics. I can give you multiple examples of the Chilean dream but one that has impressed me the most was a close friend of our family that started at the age of 12 selling milk door to door simmilar to what an american paper route use to be. He developed a really good work ethic and applied himself at school and saved what he could to go to a decent school for a technical degree. Mind you both parents made the minimum wage during his life. He then released his best bet would be to learn english the best he could and work his tail off from there. Well he did both and was successfull at gaining enough skills to be marketable to the point that his base salary is 4 million pesos plus bonuses. He also now owns(mortgaged) 4 apartments in Nunoa and plans on using these as part of his retirement. I say semantics because some might say 4 million is nothing compared to a success story in the states but to me 4 million plus 4 apartments plus other side business he now owns I would say constitute a chilean dream considering his parents didn't even graduate from Enseñanza básica(middle school). I think anyone can be sucessful anywhere. The success just might be limited but that is to be expected because the Chilean market doens't offer the type of abundance that Europe/USA offers.
I agree that there are some Chileans who become successful, my BIL for example rose from little to achieve a lot , but that’s it. I can’t think of another anecdotal Chilean success story and that’s because they are few and far between.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"

frozen-north
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:28 am

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by frozen-north » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:50 am

41southchile wrote:
frozen-north wrote:
41southchile wrote: While I certainly wouldn't admire him in that way or know anyone that would be condoning him, I can actually understand why people are praising him , in their feelings of impotence , despair, and whatever else.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17223&start=2112#p195737
Your current rant reminded me that not long ago you 'could understand why people were praising Cobin' after the shooting.
Happy you recalled what I said then, ok then I will rephrase it for you.
I can understand why people are praising Cobin because they are scared that so many people are praising the destruction and violence .
And ok then, I can understand why people are supporting the violence because they are blinded by anger , and social media and blame everyone else for their shitty life and never look at their own behavior.
That a more balanced rant for you?
So, you say that people support the shooting of protesters because they are scared, and also add that they are scared because ' so many people are praising the destruction and violence'. Really?? Who exactly are doing the praising?

Then you say that you understand that people support the violence ' because they are blinded by anger , and social media and blame everyone else for their shitty life and never look at their own behavior'.

So, somehow you create a moral justification for the shooting of protesters 'blinded by anger', etc, etc. by scared right-wing vigilantes.

Do look at the first 1.19 minutes, dont skip it, businesses , homes destroyed , not in this video but I've seen a women driving school Van with toddlers coming home from Kindy attacked by criminals with rocks and pleading to be let through, they didnt and dont give a shit . While I certainly wouldn't admire him in that way or know anyone that would be condoning him, I can actually understand why people are praising him , in their feelings of impotence , despair, and whatever else.
Now all they see is someone getting all the attention and full force of the law after him while the criminals carry on destroying more and more stuff every day with impunity.
It's the friggin law of the jungle,m out there in those street situations , and those supporting him? Well rational people will sometimes react irrationally when under stress, maybe the support for him is an emotional outlet now their world has been completely turned upside down.
He will find, and has found a lot of support, ordinary people, and sadly in the current state we are in that's hardly surprising.
Let me guess, you also made up the story of the woman driving a school van, just as you made up the story about the 'old lady in Puerto Montt'.

frozen-north
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:28 am

Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by frozen-north » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:39 am

murf wrote:
About 10 years ago I was struck down with cancer,... The lower classes of Chile are struck by a cancer of sorts, sure, they may not hunger for food but as is inherent in all humans, they hunger for the chance for improvement and they have dreams and they hunger for the ability to achieve or fulfill their dreams.
41southchile wrote: I'm sorry to hear of your cancer.....BS BS BS .... but there are still plenty that get ahead ... Violence and intimidation of fellow citizens and destruction and theft of property is not a justified by what you say about a lack of hope
murf wrote: You are making the mistake of trying to conflate my desire to understand why this is happening with other people condoning of the actions.
No, he is not conflating anything, he is just being dishonest. He is using your answers as a platform to continue posting his rant, same as he did in the earlier exchange you had with him, and just has he was doing in the exchange with Space Cat.

So, you had cancer? Well, other people had other problems, but they managed to get ahead.

Locked