State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

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fraggle092
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:01 pm

What's that flapping noise?
It's the sound of chickens starting to come home to roost.
Newly appointed Finance Minister Ignacio Briones told a legislative committee it was “highly likely” unemployment would jump 3% in the coming months, Diario Financiero reported.

The peso currency, which hit a historic low on Thursday, also raised the spectre of a hike in fuel costs, Briones told reporters outside the committee.

“Fuel prices are going to rise, it can’t be any other way,” he said.
This is just the start.
If it wasn't so difficult to uproot after so many years here, I would be thinking of going.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-chile ... XO2IX?il=0
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

Après moi, le déluge

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41southchile
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:05 pm

murf wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:23 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:31 pm
murf wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:01 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:09 pm

Please define millions suffering? No food on their table , no house ? Persecution? What is your definition of millions suffering?
About 10 years ago I was struck down with cancer, I didn’t vote for it, I didn’t want it or ask for it.
I was not in pain for the doctors medicated me well, I did not hunger or want for shelter but what cancer took from me was what is most important to me, you or anybody for that matter, something which is a fundamental necessity of the human spirit, and that is hope. It took from me all my dreams and aspirations and left me in a void of ambiguity and disinterest.
The lower classes of Chile are struck by a cancer of sorts, sure, they may not hunger for food but as is inherent in all humans, they hunger for the chance for improvement and they have dreams and they hunger for the ability to achieve or fulfill their dreams.
Without the ability to dream and to have an opportunity to achieve their dreams, any people will be discontent.

Most average Chileans will never get to experience even a tenth of the adventures you or I have experienced.
Take away hope, and you destroy the individual.
I'm sorry to hear of your cancer and won't pretend to say I understand because I can only imagine but not appreciate what you went through.
Yes there is desperation, yes there is a lack of hope, in lots of places dont think I've denied any of that. Especially in homes racked by domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse, drowning in debt, sexual abuse. Bullying, family problems, sickness etc the list is long. Yes companies corporates etc have fucked over many, and the government has been complicit but there are still plenty that get ahead, that provide for their families, that educate their kids that just want to live a peaceful life , live within their means, participate in their communities, but not many of those people are calling for the destruction of civil society. Hope is relative I guess, the dreams are relative too. Whatever , Violence and intimidation of fellow citizens and destruction and theft of property is not a justified by what you say about a lack of hope. Property can be repaired, but the social consequences and hate and mistrust between citizens will not be fixed so quickly, if ever.
Not everyone wants adventure either, but how many are able to have more adventures now compared to say their parents generation. Rome wasn't built in a day, if its 30 years for shit to end up like this supposedly, it's not going to be sorted in 30 days, so where to now? Burn it all , and fuck everyone?
You are making the mistake of trying to conflate my desire to understand why this is happening with other people condoning of the actions.
Just because I desire to understand the motives doesn’t mean that I condone them or condone the violence.
I grew with the violence of the “troubles “ so trust me when I say that I do not in any way condone these actions. But I do understand them, furthermore, I’m not at all surprised by what is happening.
Now, the US for all it’s faults , the U.K., for all its faults, Australia, for all its faults etc etc are places where the ordinary joe soap has a shot at making it. There are no such odds in Chile and when someone like my wife leaves Chile with nothing, moves to a foreign country with nothing, not even the language and returns a decade later having “made it” then the people take note.
They take note due to their vast window to the world via the internet, they know there is better to be had and they know that they are getting the short end of the stick and judging by the attitude of the majority on this and other social media outlets, their concerns and grievances are not getting through so I suspect that we are in for a long period of unrest and disruption.
Maybe I did make a mistake,? The one thing I definitely agree with you is your last 11 words, about the long period of unrest and disruption.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:08 pm

41southchile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:19 pm
thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:05 pm
41southchile wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:35 pm
So I had to go into Puerto Varas and do a couple of things. I stopped outside the mall to roll a cigarette, and check emails/messages on phone, there's normally a couple of staff out there from the mall, we smile and exchange greetings, today there was only an older lady puffing away nervously I said good morning she replied good morning. Then a guy came over, youngish maybe 25, not completely untidy, just average looking, the lady just shook her head when he asked for a smoke then she scuttled off inside. So I said yeah I'll give you one, but you have to roll it, I only have tobacco. He couldn't roll and was making a total hash of it, but while he was trying to roll the conversation went something like this translated.
Him first
"You hear they burnt the Bancoestado in Puerto Montt?
Me: "Yeah I heard "
Him: "Fucking good job, fuck them, fuck them all, fucking thieves, once they stole 33 thousand pesos off me and blocked my card, burn everything down I say"
Me trying to move the conversation away from burning shit down "what about those politicians though aye, they corrupt aye" .
Him, not even replying to that "Fuck the bancoestado, fucking thieves, good it burnt, now they should burn the cathedral down in Puerto Varas, hey can you help me roll this cigarette, I'm not really good at it"
Me:, "sorry dude I'm running late, have to go, bye, take it easy"

How do you even reason with that people like that? Seriously, wtf? I would not have described him as flaite, those are the attitudes the country is dealing with, in case you hadn't noticed, how many more out there think like him?
It sounds like he was getting ready to ask you for a "loan", and didn't want you to change the subject.
🤣
I almost thought of saying, if I give you the 33 thousand pesos that you lost from the bank will you stop calling for the Puerto Varas cathedral to be burnt down . Decided against it.
That was probably a good decision:) You never know what could set him off.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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fraggle092
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:38 pm

"You hear they burnt the Bancoestado in Puerto Montt?
Me: "Yeah I heard "
Him: "Fucking good job, fuck them, fuck them all, fucking thieves, once they stole 33 thousand pesos off me and blocked my card, burn everything down I say"
.
voxpop.jpg
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

Après moi, le déluge

vamoschile
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by vamoschile » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:58 pm

Well they have officially created a song simmilar to when the terremoto happened in 2010 with all the different famous singers. The feeling I get is the singers want venganza por Allende. The reason I say that is they have the lead singer of illapu start the song. Remember he was exiled under Pinochet. The average Chilean just want a better life and I don't think they give a crap about Allende and kicking him out because in the end he was just as bad as Pinochet just a different type of bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx4MhR-SV_0

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Dosedmonkey
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:01 pm

The Carabineros were struggling with criminal elements before this disorder. A couple of suburbs of Santiago were no go areas a less they had enough Carabineros for a shoot out, and it had to be an organised operation. This situation has pushed them past what they can manage by normal policing means, hence the mass use of pellet shotguns after the army was withdrawn. If they deployed the army again, at least they would have enough hands to make mass arrests. As we saw of looters by military in the first week. But fatigue is setting in, so expect Carabineros to either start to get more violent or losing control. Just waiting for the deaths to roll in.

The military could easily control the country, but it would be using live ammunition and detentions on the populas. It would pull Chile down to the dark ages.

Anyone who thinks a small loss for a big gain in the long run has no idea about history. Popular uprisings cause so much destruction and damage to property and economy, the countries don't heal for a much much longer time, by time which the new youth have forgotten what happened and are protesting again because they had nothing from the new failed system.

As rightly said the youth have very poor education and next to no hope, compounded by communist professors at the schools. They are desperate for change. This combined with the violence that exists day to day in Santiago anyway, it really isn't surprising it's boiled over.

Mem says there hasn't been violent protests before. But the 7 years I lived on Santiago there was violent protests every single year. Tear gas and looting. Just on a much smaller scale.

There is now at Carabineros needs to infiltrate as some suggest. I have seen with my own eyes, how if the Carabineros don't play nice/dance/smile at youths as they pass, a confrontation can spark out of no where. There is a lot of hate towards the pacos from parents instilled on their children. Half the time it is because the parent broke a law and the Paco probably just took his details, maybe fined them. I had been threatened whilst driving my car in Santiago. And I have seen others attacked, once at gun point in theirs cars. Chile has a violence problem, but it's the culture and justice system that does not punish criminals, especially minors, that has caused it. It is the thought that they will get away with it, which allows them to do these things.

A less there is 16 year old Carabineros then I have seen Molotov and fires and rocks throw by youths over the years. The train from Santiago to Buin zoo was always famous for youths throwing big rocks at it, as it passed San Bernardo.

They needed to improve education and then health care. But most importantly education. And could of prevented all this., And helped the economy.

A lot of USA commentators on twitter want to make this a comminist Vs state. They really did brain wash US citizens during the cold war well in to suspecting everyone's a communist. There is a huge difference between socialist reform and communism. Would you call England communist just because it had socialist reform which gave it a national health service for all?

And then you get all the left wing commentators pretending Pinera is a dictator... That is just dumb, most of them pretending to be political commentators, but don't know what an elected government is.

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Dosedmonkey
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:19 pm

Police in rencagau had a stick of dynamite thrown at them, luckily it didn't detonate. It looks like it could be from a mining facility.

In another incident in Conception a Carabineros house was broken in to and they tried to steal their baby. And they wonder why they are using rubber pellets.

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Space Cat
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:21 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:36 pm
Seriously, this mess had made me think about leaving the country more than once, and I still think about it everyday.
For me and my wife, it was the final confirmation that we picked the right country to immigrate. We initially decided to stay after getting to know Chilean people better. Their attitudes towards the events of the last weeks sealed our desire to live here for the rest of the life.

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41southchile
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:25 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:01 pm


The military could easily control the country, but it would be using live ammunition and detentions on the populas. It would pull Chile down to the dark ages.

I think that is a risk and calculation the military and those in the background are prepared to take now. It has reached that stage, I'll say no more , good night all, stay indoors, If it's not tonight it's very soon, Piñera needs to do the Evo exit strategy, but if people are talking about this, he already knows that.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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Dosedmonkey
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:48 pm

The Carabineros are on the edge. Some fantastic leadership in this video.

https://twitter.com/LordHeller2022/stat ... 76160?s=20

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Dosedmonkey
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:01 pm

Near Ercilla armoured car hit with live ammunition, possibly lucky?; Carabineros hit in arm and leg, transferred to hospital, maybe just shards of rounds as they were in the most armoured vehicle Carabineros have.

mem
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by mem » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:02 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:01 pm
The Carabineros were struggling with criminal elements before this disorder. A couple of suburbs of Santiago were no go areas a less they had enough Carabineros for a shoot out, and it had to be an organised operation. This situation has pushed them past what they can manage by normal policing means, hence the mass use of pellet shotguns after the army was withdrawn. If they deployed the army again, at least they would have enough hands to make mass arrests. As we saw of looters by military in the first week. But fatigue is setting in, so expect Carabineros to either start to get more violent or losing control. Just waiting for the deaths to roll in.

The military could easily control the country, but it would be using live ammunition and detentions on the populas. It would pull Chile down to the dark ages.

Anyone who thinks a small loss for a big gain in the long run has no idea about history. Popular uprisings cause so much destruction and damage to property and economy, the countries don't heal for a much much longer time, by time which the new youth have forgotten what happened and are protesting again because they had nothing from the new failed system.

As rightly said the youth have very poor education and next to no hope, compounded by communist professors at the schools. They are desperate for change. This combined with the violence that exists day to day in Santiago anyway, it really isn't surprising it's boiled over.

Mem says there hasn't been violent protests before. But the 7 years I lived on Santiago there was violent protests every single year. Tear gas and looting. Just on a much smaller scale.

There is now at Carabineros needs to infiltrate as some suggest. I have seen with my own eyes, how if the Carabineros don't play nice/dance/smile at youths as they pass, a confrontation can spark out of no where. There is a lot of hate towards the pacos from parents instilled on their children. Half the time it is because the parent broke a law and the Paco probably just took his details, maybe fined them. I had been threatened whilst driving my car in Santiago. And I have seen others attacked, once at gun point in theirs cars. Chile has a violence problem, but it's the culture and justice system that does not punish criminals, especially minors, that has caused it. It is the thought that they will get away with it, which allows them to do these things.

A less there is 16 year old Carabineros then I have seen Molotov and fires and rocks throw by youths over the years. The train from Santiago to Buin zoo was always famous for youths throwing big rocks at it, as it passed San Bernardo.

They needed to improve education and then health care. But most importantly education. And could of prevented all this., And helped the economy.

A lot of USA commentators on twitter want to make this a comminist Vs state. They really did brain wash US citizens during the cold war well in to suspecting everyone's a communist. There is a huge difference between socialist reform and communism. Would you call England communist just because it had socialist reform which gave it a national health service for all?

And then you get all the left wing commentators pretending Pinera is a dictator... That is just dumb, most of them pretending to be political commentators, but don't know what an elected government is.
My point about the non-violence was specifically to this current episode that started mid-october...for which these last 4 weeks are unprecedented. The perceived law enforcement violence followed when the burning started...not when they were merely evading/not paying

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