Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Anything related to legal issues, immigration, problems, regulations, tax issues, or any other law or legal related problem in Chile. Moderated By A Chilean Attorney.

Moderator: Zvalenzuela

Post Reply
bigfort
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by bigfort » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:59 am

Hey,
I obtained permanent residency in 2013 and applied for citizenship in 2018. I have gone through the interview a year ago, and was asked to send more documentation, pay the fee and the permanent residency card in early January 2019. I did send in everything they asked for.
Circumstances would have it that I have had a lot of other things to do over the past year in other places, my cedula expired and now it's getting close to me not having been in Chile for a year. Normally I would have been able to file for an extension with a Chilean embassy, but that was not possible this year as it had already been mailed in.

So now I am wondering: A) Should I travel back to Chile before the 1 year deadline on a very short trip just to make sure the residency doesn't expire? B) I am guessing they will let me in to the country with my foreign passport plus expired cedula, but will they let me back out again? Or would I then have to wait inside of Chile for the process to finish?

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 18879
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by admin » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:41 pm

uhmm, yea, this is why we warn people to renew their ID before filing for citizenship. The citizenship process was originally envisioned to be a relatively rare occurrence, that would be processed relatively quickly. It is in fact taking about 2+ years, and seems to only happen about once per administration, as the president has to sign the citizenship decrees.

That residency decree letter you had to surrender to apply, is required to renew your ID. You have not technically lost your residency, all other things being equal (i.e. you were not convicted of some major crime). Your last immigration status is still valid, however you will be stuck in a bureaucratic blackhole between the two.

The only thing you could try, is request a new copy of your residency letter (as if you lost it). There is a small (actually large) possibility, that the two bureaucracies actually don't talk to you each other. Warning, there is a real possibility of making a mess out of both; again, that assumes an unusual level of coordination between government bureaucracies.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

bigfort
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by bigfort » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:10 pm

> uhmm, yea, this is why we warn people to renew their ID before filing for citizenship.

I realize now that that would have been a really good idea.

> Your last immigration status is still valid, however you will be stuck in a bureaucratic blackhole between the two.

Yes, but if I stay outside of Chile for more than a year, it will be lost, at least in theory, right?

I called the official number at Extranjeria, and they told me that once back in Chile, I should send them a letter asking for the residency decree letter back for the purpose of applying for an ID. It would then take about a month for them to send it back to me. Once in my possession, I should apply for an ID, and then mail it back to Extranjeria. So it should be possible, but it sounds like quite a lengthy process.

So I am wondering: If one only has an expired ID, but a valid foreign passport, can they deny you to leave the country? Has this happened before?

> It is in fact taking about 2+ years, and seems to only happen about once per administration, as the president has to sign the citizenship decrees.

Does that mean that all citizenship applications from several years receive their approval at the same time?

Related: I first sent in my application in early 2018 with papers showing income going back a year as well as criminal records check from home country and Chile, etc. . When I then received my pre-approval in early 2019, they included some words referring to "Art. 11 del D.S. N°5.142" saying that all the papers I had sent in were only valid for a year and therefore they asked me to prove my income during 2018 and an updated criminal records check from home country + Chile. Now I am wondering: Given that this will likely last a good while longer, is it possible or probable that they could send me another letter in early 2020, asking me to update my documentation a second time given that the last documentation has now expired?

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 18879
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by admin » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:47 am

o.k., well entering the country will solve the keeping your residency valid.

the sending back your letter, in theory would solve the renewing the id problem. i am not so sure about throwing a wrench in your citizenship application; but, give it a try. not much choice.

the leaving the country thing, you will probably be fine, if you dont get your id renewed, simply explaining the problem to PDI with the expired id and valid passport.

the poor pdi probably put up with a lot more incompetence from the department of immigration than that. bring lots of documents proving your correspondence with the department of immigration.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

bigfort
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by bigfort » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:35 pm

Hey again,
just in case someone else in a similar situation should come across this: The way I solved it in the end was to call the local Chilean embassy and explain the situation. They were quite understanding and said that they could work with just a copy of the permanent residency card and an expired cedula given the circumstances. So I gave them that and they extended the residency for another year, giving me a certificate of that and sending an electronic version to Chile.

at46
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1178
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by at46 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:56 pm

Gloria wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:41 pm
Good 4 u ! You solved the problem all by yourself. Now the question is....why would you want to be a chilean?
Good question. Please everyone chip in with your answers. I need some good arguments, too, as I'm about to file for passport :)

User avatar
eeuunikkeiexpat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 7800
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:38 am
Location: Megalith of unknown origin near my digs, south V Region coast

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:18 pm

"passport" - yes best developing world passport in regards to visa free travel to a ton of countries
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

bigfort
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by bigfort » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:47 pm

Gloria wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:41 pm
why would you want to be a chilean?
There are several reasons and they have changed over the time it took to get this far. There are probably fewer reasons now than at some points in the past previously, so if I were in the current situation I would not be willing to spend all the time and do all the work to get there, but at this stage all the paperwork has been filed and hopefully it should get to a conclusion within the next year and then this was worth it.

Initially, I was in Chile close to fulltime and had a partner from another South American country and we could spend time both in Chile and the partner's country without too many restrictions using just cedulas. The partner is still there, and we recently had a kid (which make travels slightly more complicated) and have to spend more time in an European Union (EU) country (that I'm not from either) because my partner wants to get the passport from that country and generally is better off than in home country. It was much easier to get permanent residency for the partner in the EU country than in Chile even though the language is the same. Go figure.

Also, my partner is into the kinds of jobs where is much more beneficial to be living in living in some high-tax regions of Europe - and it's the opposite for me. My partner qualifies for nationality by now and is just waiting for the nationality to come through, so a very similar situation to the one I am in. Coincidentally there is a large Chilean expat community in this European country and we have become part of the local Chilean circles. There is no similar expat community either of my country of origin or of my partner's country of origin that I am aware of.

Another issue is that my partner's country is more restrictive about citizenship for children born abroad once you have acquired the local nationality than what Chile is. I grew up with parents from two different countries and I know how important it was for my identity that I had these two passports. A friend of mine even found out at age 17 that he was also a Brazilian national and even though he had no family from Brazil and his parents only had stayed there briefly when he was a small child, it ended up meaning a lot for him to have that passport as he spends most of his holidays in Brazil, learned Brazilian Portuguese, constantly walks around in a shirt of the Brazilian soccer team, etc. .

Should we have another kid after after my partner has obtained local nationality it may be impossible to get that other nationality for kid #2. But if I'm Chilean, we could get a Chilean passport for child #2, which would put the kids on an equal footing and would allow both of them to move to South America - either for a while to learn proper Spanish or more permanently.

After we are done with getting these passports and are freer to spend our time as we want, we don't yet know where we will be most of the year. If my partner has a steady job that is most likely going to be in Europe. If that is not the case and partner starts missing Latin America more, then Chile would likely be the compromise as living standards are a bit higher than in partner's country of origin, partner has a lot of friends in Chile as well, and it's a place than I actually can stand being more than just a few weeks of holiday at a time.

The above is not a full explanation, but should give you some ideas of the thoughts that lead me to not give up at this stage.
ate46 wrote:Please everyone chip in with your answers. I need some good arguments, too, as I'm about to file for passport
None of that helped you the slightest bit, I would think. :D I wrote something about how I traveled through Chile (describing some of my travels and different places that I had lived at times) and really liked it and decided that I now wanted to become part of it. It was all true and I think that's an answer that is much easier to grasp for a bureaucrat who has to look at that application than all the other stuff mentioned above.

bigfort
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by bigfort » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:19 am

Put it in google translate. That should give you a version in whatever language you want. :D

Seriously though - if there is something you really didn't understand and it's not you disapproving of my life choices, let me know and I'll explain in more detail.

bigfort
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by bigfort » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:50 am

sorry, I'm not going to answer that for now. Maybe after my application has gone through. I'm sure you'll understand.

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: Losing residency while waiting for citizenship?

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:03 am

Just to add here my wife is Peruvian, she applied for Chilean citizenship, for the exact reason of crisis like the one happening now, or a war between Chile and Peru she didn't want to lose out as lived her entire adult life in Chile.

She passed everything, it was just left pending approval of president. We went in to the immigration and PDI multiple times as sounded like a joke. Bachelet obviously didn't like Peruvians, two years passed and no approval. We left Chile.

So indefinite is how long you can wait it seems.

Post Reply