Where Should I Start?

Introduce yourself, discover who else is here, and get news and information about the forum. Most of all, tell us what Chile means for you.

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frozen-north
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by frozen-north » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:44 am

Sr. El Puelche wrote:
I am only going to relate what i saw, lived, smelled and tasted------

Liberation Theology, beginning in Brazil in the early 70’s ...

Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:17 pm

While this is the internet, its not high school——Why are you acting like you are in high school?——You have, in your demeanor and statements, a position so claim them and we can examine it all———just contradicting what I am relating does not get anywhere——What the hell, just tell your own story, if you have one? You are reactionary and emotional about it——in your language and demeanor you propose that an alternative position exists—so write it out and we can look at it——seriously get on with it.

Insults and slander——I don’t think anything has been an insult here and much less slander——a challenge maybe, and well put on your part actually in regard to the gorros—— i saw an it happen and I have no proof of it happening=====no newsreel and or newspaper clipping or internet link———damn, but I saw it.

Yes, I can say anything I want——nearly—So Pratt wrote a book about his experience——did he site and reference everything he wrote? —— according to you I can’t relate my personal experience but Pratt can and it’s legitimate?

The holocaust and slavery——never mentioned it——I was not not there and actually not born yet so I can’t really comment on it——except for my 7 uncles (not jewish) that were taken by the nazis to slave camps in Germany and only 4 came back——oh, yeah I don’t have a link for that so I guess it did not happen.

I think there is a saying where the winners get to write history——so what good is history anyway? an ancillary point is that history and it’s bricks don’t always add up to the truth—in fact probably less than 50/50 so i grant you that.

I am relating what I experienced and that’s it——addendum's and facts I will leave up to you SCL or anyone else——like you said Chileans don’t talk about it but I do.

Yeah Chile has been very vocal about leading the way to understanding dictatorship and social change——no one cares really—— its a sad reality where the marginalized suffer and it just goes on.

Al Bordaje Muchachos!!!!

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Julito
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Julito » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:00 pm

Yep, keep relating what you experienced, it´s interesting.

Ignore the trolling, reacting only gives it oxygen.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:00 pm

How about the ultimate accusation, whether true or not :?: El P is CIA and an expert in uncovering and decloaking the opposition :alien: :alien:

The individual flak received matches who I would expect it from so keep on keeping on, this will be both fun and educational.

Or go and complain to Charles if you don't agree and/or your feelings get hurt.
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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Magnyz
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Magnyz » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:12 am

Wow, have not checked the forum for some weeks and what do I see now ... 70 posts of conversation with El Puelche. Welcome back and I will read all posts with great interest. Cooool. :D

Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:20 pm

The next three months or so, half in Santiago and the other half in La Serena. Santiago, a modern city and La Serena p provincial town———certainly not backwards but a much different vive and speed. In Santiago, things escalated with issues every day including power outages as the FMLR attacked power stations. Candles, matches and food stocked away was the regular norm during this time.

There is no doubt Pinochet was executing people. At the time people knew this but no pro-pinochet supporters brought it up. The day of the coup was one thing were those executed were given to families to bury——as I said before there were maybe 30 or so in La Serena and similar numbers in all other towns and cities. Santiago was different with something of around 13,000 or 15,000 were held there——many did not make it out. I can’t say its fair——but that is the reality of it———What I do want to impart is that Chile’s economy was being built back up from the ashes by Pinochet———if you minded your business, nothing was going to happen to you on the part of the government. My family suffered greatly under Allende and the communists made it hard for them, essentially starving them——so you see this is the difference. Now many can be upset in regard to what the media was allowed to report and what was shown on television and I get it. Por La Razon o la Fureza Chile would have fallen into civil war if Pinochet had not had the hardest of hands in leading the country. Strong words and my opinion but there it is.

I only had two occasions where I knew first hand the taking of people and torture during Pinochet’s time——I had dozens if not hundred of first hand experiences where the left up to no good. Maybe i was not talking to the right people but my relationship with Chileans was very well rounded, young and old, wealthy and poorest poor and everyone in between. Maybe as a foriegner and an American, things were not shared, I don’t know, I can only relate what I saw.

I hope readers will share what they saw from that time, especially from the left side——I would like to hear it in order to examine and fill in the gaps of what I already know——and as well, so anyone reading can have two sides to the story.


Does this fit hear and now? IDK but gonna write it anyway———With Pinochet as head of Army General Staff and Allende believing him to be on top of any coup attempt, mid 1973 came and went. Sometime in June I think there was a disorganized coup attempt that year with tanks being the main force and became known as the “Tanquetazo.” With small numbers it was bound to fail and it did. What I was told was that for the military, planning the 11 de septiembre coup, they were impressed with how little people supported Allende as he had made a radio address at the Tanquetazo became active. On 11 de septiembre they started early. I know in La Serena and the environs a skeleton crew of Carabineros was left behind as they brought in police into Santiago from all over Chile leaving at 11:30 pm the night before.

Fidel Castro had come to Chile for what was supposed to be a few day trip but ending staying a month. He stayed at Allende’s home which became unbearable with Castro hanging out. He had two gifts for Allende———an alligator which was let go in the pool and a gold plated AK 47——which Allende eventually used to shoot himself witnessed by his mistress and personal secretary at the time “La Playita.” ———A late 1980’s interview with her in France’s Paris Match relates her experience. After La Moneda was taken over they found him is his office of Morande——a small door leading to the street which Pinochet had bricked up in the restoration of La Moneda in the aftermath of the coup———I think Bachilet had the door restored and exists again. Fireman took his body out wrapped in a cheap wool plaid blanket. Pinochet had offered a plane to take him anywhere he wanted to go but he chose to address the nation via radio and his choice was to die in his office sitting on the sofa. Now what to do with the body? Family friends or ours, related to Allende, offered their family tomb in Valparaiso——he was taken immediately, and under secrecy, interned. The only lasting symbol of his presidency now being his new grave and broken black eyeglasses.

My brother in law now well enough to travel flew back to La Serena. I rode the bus mid day out of Santiago to La Serena——about 12 hours——and not salon cama. A nice if not long ride to see Chile——In Los Vilos we stopped to eat——the Copec and I had Conger eel for the first time. Apart from that——nothing——except for the road crews digging trench, by hand, on each side of the Pan American highway——a meter wide and a meter deep. Maybe for drainage or tech lines to be later installed, I don’t know. Pinochet had put forth a program much like American President Roosevelt did with work programs. Men were paid and fed but camped out across the country on work projects. I met the colonel in charge of the Fourth Region at party not soon after I arrived in La Serena so I posed the question, “Why not just buy a tractor and get it done?”——his response, “Yes, I could buy a tractor or two at $100k US dollars each, but I’d rather have my men making a living."


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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:44 pm

Might be deleted now but I once recounted a story of a member of my extended Chilean family, this individual was a drafted soldier and was at the stadium. During the many executions, they would have the lights shining in the recruits eyes as they fired at the targets so they could not "see" who they were shooting at.
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

- Søren Kierkegaard

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41southchile
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by 41southchile » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:29 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:44 pm
Might be deleted now but I once recounted a story of a member of my extended Chilean family, this individual was a drafted soldier and was at the stadium. During the many executions, they would have the lights shining in the recruits eyes as they fired at the targets so they could not "see" who they were shooting at.
Like firing squads during the war, a line of soldiers lined up to fire, but a couple were always given blanks. So a soldier could never be certain it was them that actually shot someone dead and plausibly claim they had never shot someone in a firing squad for sure, always a doubt
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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41southchile
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by 41southchile » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:23 am

Sr. El Puelche wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:20 pm
The next three months or so, half in Santiago and the other half in La Serena. Santiago, a modern city and La Serena p provincial town———certainly not backwards but a much different vive and speed. In Santiago, things escalated with issues every day including power outages as the FMLR attacked power stations. Candles, matches and food stocked away was the regular norm during this time.

There is no doubt Pinochet was executing people. At the time people knew this but no pro-pinochet supporters brought it up. The day of the coup was one thing were those executed were given to families to bury——as I said before there were maybe 30 or so in La Serena and similar numbers in all other towns and cities. Santiago was different with something of around 13,000 or 15,000 were held there——many did not make it out. I can’t say its fair——but that is the reality of it———What I do want to impart is that Chile’s economy was being built back up from the ashes by Pinochet———if you minded your business, nothing was going to happen to you on the part of the government. My family suffered greatly under Allende and the communists made it hard for them, essentially starving them——so you see this is the difference. Now many can be upset in regard to what the media was allowed to report and what was shown on television and I get it. Por La Razon o la Fureza Chile would have fallen into civil war if Pinochet had not had the hardest of hands in leading the country. Strong words and my opinion but there it is.

. Apart from that——nothing——except for the road crews digging trench, by hand, on each side of the Pan American highway——a meter wide and a meter deep. Maybe for drainage or tech lines to be later installed, I don’t know. Pinochet had put forth a program much like American President Roosevelt did with work programs. Men were paid and fed but camped out across the country on work projects. I met the colonel in charge of the Fourth Region at party not soon after I arrived in La Serena so I posed the question, “Why not just buy a tractor and get it done?”——his response, “Yes, I could buy a tractor or two at $100k US dollars each, but I’d rather have my men making a living."


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I've heard the civil war claims too, many a time from my German desended neighbors , the UP was heading that way with civil war not that far off they reckon, wasn't there so can't comment, but that's what they all say.

As for the guys digging ditches instead of using tractors, that is still a practice that goes on today, " job creation " with gangs of men cutting grass along the highways here in the South funded by the muni, saw them all at it last week, in a job that a tractor could have done in a few hours.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

Ripsigg
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Ripsigg » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:45 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:47 pm
You no longer show up on the registration list, but here is the list as it current stands from the beginning of the forum, kudos to Magnyz, Juanito, Eric, and Vicki Lansen for sticking around:
Screen Shot 2019-08-27 at 8.40.41 PM.jpg
On an account that I lost access to, I am also on that screesnhot you posted. Anyways wlecome back Puelche even though I don't really remember you.

Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:11 pm

The drive north is dry and nothing but a few towns, if you can call them that, you pass thru. The Pan American was mostly in view of the ocean so mostly it was far off fishing caletas with lonely roads down to the sea. Los Vilos, Pichidangui, Tongoy and that was pretty much it. At a Ligua, the bread sellers numbering several dozen with their large baskets drapped in white clothes sold their goods.

Every 100 kilometers or so a road block. A red and white painted streel bar across the road where traffic, both north and south, were pulled to the side for an inspection by Carabineros. Drivers and passengers were asked for identification and travel plans and notes were taken. Buses had a passenger manifest list taken off by the driver to be inspected. Manifests were fully documented as passengers bought tickets at the point of purchase with everything written down-----passport number or RUT with your name. Buses would routinely stop for passengers in route which were usually locals traveling just a small part of the route and sometimes through roadblocks. Carabineros came on board to check them while organically checking the documents of others. Politely, some were taken off the bus. Once cleared, the iron bar went up for vehicles, buses and trucks to pass on their way.

SIDE NOTE----Chile has always always had IVA in place to charge wholesalers, retailers and consumers tax on goods bought and sold. IVA is Chile's tax base. Apart from property tax, the government does not procure from the general populace in any other way----except a tax on income for high earning professionals like doctors and lawyers etc... A big function of Carabineros is to check for goods traveling from one point to another without paying taxes---mostly this would be agriculture-------so a truck could have 25 crates of tomatoes on the bill of lading officially and another 6 on the truck load off the bill of lading and therefore not taxed. Typically a consumer is issued a bolleta to record the sale for SII or Chilean Internal Revenue Service. A factura is used for wholesale to a retailer and again recorded for SII----In those days a business was required to submit and pay taxes every month and God help you if you did't. Transferring purchased goods or goods from one local to another required a Giro de Despacho or bill of lading. Now in the US this simply something in a delivery and the first thing you throw away-----In Chile, if you look at a bolleta, factura or guia de despacho, it has a carbon impression along with slightly raised lettering put there by Sii, Businesses have their paperwork printed and must take it to Sii in the correct numbered sequence to be stamped. The economics of it is that from original destination for the product there is a 20% IVA charged-----So if a wholesaler sells a product at 200 while purchasing it at 100 pesos, they are responsible for the 20 pesos of IVA on that product. The retailer sells it at 300 pesos so they are set to pay the same 20 pesos again in IVA and where the consumer pays 30 pesos in IVA----paid on their behalf to the state. This is where the Chilean makes their money. Carabineros are the main control of this on the road and so not just to control people moving about Chile the road block was also to control the proper payment of taxes and punish those who did not comply----tax them and fine them.

The road was a simple two lane affair where you could pull of or turn around anywhere----obviously not the toll road of today. Sometimes lonely truck stops would appear or the lonely house just off the road and the caletas I mentioned before. Mostly trucks and buses and a few cars. There were parts of the road where scraggily bus high bushes closed off the road except for a truck width in the middle-----not much traffic on the road. When I got to Chile there was just the beginning of new cars beginning to emerge-----mostly small fiats, renaults, volkswagons and few if any new pick-up trucks. Daihatsu and Suzuki had a small van coming in and was popular-----any vehicle was expensive------Doctors and other professionals that could afford a car drove Citroenettas in the years before this.

In the late afternoon our bus came over the final hill to Coquimbo and La Herradurra below. A dusty drab port town, Coquimbo had a very large iron ore export dock as we as dozens of fishing boats both in steel and wood. Astilleros for ship repair were very busy not only servicing local boats and ships but also any ship plying the seas from the coast to as far away as Eater Island. Grimy but busy and attached somewhat to La Serena just a few miles up the coast nestled at the center of a large wide mouthed bite alongside the Elqui River.

La Serena, founded in 1545, was the first settlement made by the Spanish-----relieved to find a significant water source in the Elqui River and at least some vegetation with a nice bay, the Spanish began to build along the bluff just south of the river. If you happen to troll through La Serena's old town you will see the stone corner pillars still there holding up the low Adobe buildings and homes they built. La Serena expanded south from there. There is a palm tree there in that quarter that has an arrow stuck through it high up from where the Indians tried to fight off the Spanish----Can't remember where exactly but its near the girl's school, Sagrado Corazon.

Thinking I was in La Serena as I arrived, I thought I was in trouble before asking. We continued down the Pan American the few kilometers through what looked like a swampy area------and nothing on the beach but farms. The Spanish architecture came into view in stone and all the adobe buildings. The bus pulled off to the terminal, set just off the road and before the city center with my sister waiting to pick me up. It was mid summer in the late afternoon and it was very quiet. La Serena, I was told, was a big tourist spot for summer in the north. Beaches and provincial night life but this was still very sleepy. I certainly did not realize the adventures I would have here, nor what what I would learn, but I was about too.

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Sr. El Puelche
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Re: Where Should I Start?

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:45 pm

A 5 peso note folded in thirds-----its unusual as most people place bills in wallets or purses will fold bills in half----a bill in thirds is different and could prove deadly.

When I was in Santiago, i perused through shops, went to the public pool, explored Santa Lucia and even went to the Agriculture fair. I also have always had an interest in currency and stamps to a lesser degree. So i sought out filatelia shops all over Santiago. Got some great buys and decided to collect a full range of bills from not only Chile but as well other Latin American countries and countries beyond. I liked the artwork and the history behind it all.

Valparaiso and Vina had very well stocked shops as a result of Valparaiso and its maritime commerce. Feria Persas are good too as you find unusual items and often the seller was not aware of the value and you could pick up bills on the quick----or not.

I bought a used English book, I think it was "Toilers of the Sea." When I opened it I sound a 2 Ruble Russian bill from 1898 in perfect condition tucked inside and I was the first one to find it since it was hidden away by who knows. During the days before the Panama Canal Valpo was the first stop after ships rounded the horn. Many, traumatized by the trip called it quits in Valpo, sold everything and made their way to Buenos Aires, very well done with any dreams they might have had along the Pacific Ocean.

After a nice purchase of currency on my round about rounds to shops, I shared my bills with a friend over coffee at a cafe. He suddenly became very solemn and conspirational. He pulled from my new purchases a single 5 escudo bill and looked it over folding it, along the lines already there, in thirds.
"You see how this bill is folded in thirds, do you know what it means?"
Well no, of course I didn't.
"During the UP (Unidad Popular) communists would identify themselves with other communists using this bill and it was a code." He said, "Sometimes as a way of proof but it also allowed the buyer to show they were communist whereby the shop keeper would give a discount or allow the buyer a chance to purchase rationed goods or contraband with no one else knowing, see the bill is red which just adds to it all."

The other significance was that on the day of the coup and for many days after, anyone stopped by Carabineros or military would search their wallets and purses searching for the red 5 peso escudo bill folded in thirds to identify whom they really had and I am sure at least detain them if not worse.

The Escudo had long given way to the peso by this time but it would have been valuable to know this detail at the roadblocks I mentioned before.

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