chile's migration crisis

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:48 am

Another real life message from the non-elite rabble: I have reported previously that many low to mid-level professional positions are being taken away at lower wages (sometimes near minimum) by predominately Venezuelans with their free higher education accomplishments and usually higher English language ability. My step-daughter who was fired like many Chilean ground staff from LATAM Chile in the past year (and who like many predatory Chilean companies probably replaced her with the above earning less) is temporarily working at a VTR call center. Almost all the other employees there are Venezuelans and Colombians BUT the latest word is that they will be axed due to Chilean customers complaining that they can't understand them. She was the Gullier voter that I had some heated discussion with before and after the recent election who probably now sees the light.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:40 pm

at46 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:09 am
Space Cat wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:48 am
Some Chilean diplomats got caught for issuing over 200 fake student visas in Nepal and India, $7,000-8,000 per visa.

Fiscalía formalizará a dos diplomáticos chilenos por tráfico de migrantes
https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nac ... ntes.shtml
For those who don't read Spanish, they didn't just issue fake visas. They actually set up a fake educational establishment in Chile to bring in those fake students. Many of whom later moved on from Chile to the United States. Which kinda makes me think the pressure from the US is the only reason the scheme ever got uncovered at all.

One of the diplomats, while on his previous diplomatic duty in Bolivia, was caught trying to dump some Bolivian imports into Chile.

yea, that is probably the source of the very noticiable spike in email we recieved that last few years out of india and south east asia looking for student visas. you can tell from the tone they had no interest in schools in chile, and often were blatent about their intent to commit visa fraud. they would be like i "i want a student visa", followed by direct questions about how long to get cotizenship, etc. no questions about what they wanted to study, schools, admision process etc. thing a real student will ask.

seems half of these were using chile to get a foothold in the united states.

of course there was a bunch of scumbag argentinans involved in it.

we dont do visa for india, exactly because of the high level of corruption and fraud involved. even if we did, we dont do student visas from any country.

the kicker. at least one of these diplomats was sanctioned before for a similar scam. a clear case of bachelet turning a blind eye, with actuel goverment official involved.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by HybridAmbassador » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:33 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:37 pm
HybridAmbassador wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:07 pm
Japan's Abe regime has passed its "temp migration law" to bringing in foreign workers much needed to supplement its declining birth rate. Japanese young kids does not wanting to commit themselves to working long hours any longer and only interviewing with those future employers if they meet the job applicant requirements! New gen young people just want hard play but NO Trabajo, go figure, changing world vs the hard working generation of yesteryears...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... d3f7e03a44
TOKYO — Japan’s parliament passed an immigration law Saturday that aims to attract 345,000 foreign workers over the next five years, seeking to plug gaps in the country’s rapidly shrinking and aging workforce.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s government forced through the law despite protests from opposition parties that argued the legislation was vague and hastily drawn up. Critics also claim it fails to address the question of social inclusion and rights for foreign workers.

But the law is driven by some inescapable demographic pressures. The fertility rate has fallen to 1.4 children per women, far below the replacement rate of 2.1, while the population is already dropping by about 400,000 people a year.

That places a significant burden on Japan’s economy, with fewer taxpayers and more dependents. The proportion of people over 65 years old has already risen to 28 percent — one of the highest in the world.
Good on the Japanese youth for looking for a better work life balance, (and Japnese women looking for more rights) for some the changes away from the yesteryear culture may just save their lives.
Well, the new gen kids grew up with too many toys so they think life can be earned with out hard work. No matter how you put it, you've got to work hard if wanting to secure your retirenment life more enjoyable free of any worries. But today's kids ( in case of Japan ) and I'm sure same there in Chile too they all expect easy life, just inmmesrsed in their smart phones even when crossing a busy car ways. Just the other day in Tokyo sidewalk, seen a teenager girl on a byke pedalling towards me with left hand grasping a cup of soda and her hand resting on the steering bar and the right hand busily texting on her SNS without paying attention to where she is going then she almost could have hit me if I did not take an evasive action ! That is the situation right now in Japan ! Japan should enact a la Korea, an obligatory military boot camp training at least for a year, then these lasy youth genre will learn of what it takes to survive and work for their living...All these said, these kids parents should take the blame for their kids up bringing...Oh what a changing time...
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:42 pm

Snowflakes, snowflakes everywhere even if there is no snow or in the middle of summer :!: :mrgreen:
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:06 pm

HybridAmbassador wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:33 pm
41southchile wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:37 pm
HybridAmbassador wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:07 pm
Japan's Abe regime has passed its "temp migration law" to bringing in foreign workers much needed to supplement its declining birth rate. Japanese young kids does not wanting to commit themselves to working long hours any longer and only interviewing with those future employers if they meet the job applicant requirements! New gen young people just want hard play but NO Trabajo, go figure, changing world vs the hard working generation of yesteryears...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ja ... d3f7e03a44
TOKYO — Japan’s parliament passed an immigration law Saturday that aims to attract 345,000 foreign workers over the next five years, seeking to plug gaps in the country’s rapidly shrinking and aging workforce.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s government forced through the law despite protests from opposition parties that argued the legislation was vague and hastily drawn up. Critics also claim it fails to address the question of social inclusion and rights for foreign workers.

But the law is driven by some inescapable demographic pressures. The fertility rate has fallen to 1.4 children per women, far below the replacement rate of 2.1, while the population is already dropping by about 400,000 people a year.

That places a significant burden on Japan’s economy, with fewer taxpayers and more dependents. The proportion of people over 65 years old has already risen to 28 percent — one of the highest in the world.
Good on the Japanese youth for looking for a better work life balance, (and Japnese women looking for more rights) for some the changes away from the yesteryear culture may just save their lives.
Well, the new gen kids grew up with too many toys so they think life can be earned with out hard work. No matter how you put it, you've got to work hard if wanting to secure your retirenment life more enjoyable free of any worries. But today's kids ( in case of Japan ) and I'm sure same there in Chile too they all expect easy life, just inmmesrsed in their smart phones even when crossing a busy car ways. Just the other day in Tokyo sidewalk, seen a teenager girl on a byke pedalling towards me with left hand grasping a cup of soda and her hand resting on the steering bar and the right hand busily texting on her SNS without paying attention to where she is going then she almost could have hit me if I did not take an evasive action ! That is the situation right now in Japan ! Japan should enact a la Korea, an obligatory military boot camp training at least for a year, then these lasy youth genre will learn of what it takes to survive and work for their living...All these said, these kids parents should take the blame for their kids up bringing...Oh what a changing time...
I hear this a lot , the blame game , in fact if you look back in history it is something that has been going on for 100s of years, "the new generation is notas good as ours, they are lazy" just look at how the parents of the 1960s teenagers were outraged at all that they stood for in those times, those dan lazy hippies " Anyway, I dont really see the point in intergenerational blamimg, but for arguments sake , I actually have faith in the current generation coming through, you could say they sure have a lot of shit and problems to sort out in the world the way it currently is, but they also have a lot to be thankful for from the previous generations.
Maybe the older generations could give them a bit of a chance, after all the young generation are a direct result of their actions.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by at46 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:46 am

Gloria wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:50 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:48 am
My step-daughter who was fired like many Chilean ground staff from LATAM Chile in the past year (and who like many predatory Chilean companies probably replaced her with the above earning less) is temporarily working at a VTR call center. Almost all the other employees there are Venezuelans and Colombians BUT the latest word is that they will be axed due to Chilean customers complaining that they can't understand them. She was the Gullier voter that I had some heated discussion with before and after the recent election who probably now sees the light.
Shame on VTR. Colombians and Venezuelan speech is way superior to Chileans by far. Plus their telephone manners are exceptionally the best.
It's true, of course, that Colombians and Venezuelans speak a much clearer version of Spanish than most Chileans. But from my personal experience dealing with both Movistar and VTR support over the phone, it's pretty rare to be able to actually get something done, regardless of the nationality on the other end. Haitians are completely useless, imho, while Colombians and Venezuelans, while eager to help, do not get enough support from their Chilean colleagues somewhere down the line, it seems. To get things done I go to Movistar or VTR offices and I have by now figured out the very few middle aged Chilean women there who get things done without mistakes. These rare gems usually have a line-up of people wanting to see specifically them regardless of the number in the line-up they were assigned by the system.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:20 am

at46 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:46 am
Gloria wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:50 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:48 am
My step-daughter who was fired like many Chilean ground staff from LATAM Chile in the past year (and who like many predatory Chilean companies probably replaced her with the above earning less) is temporarily working at a VTR call center. Almost all the other employees there are Venezuelans and Colombians BUT the latest word is that they will be axed due to Chilean customers complaining that they can't understand them. She was the Gullier voter that I had some heated discussion with before and after the recent election who probably now sees the light.
Shame on VTR. Colombians and Venezuelan speech is way superior to Chileans by far. Plus their telephone manners are exceptionally the best.
It's true, of course, that Colombians and Venezuelans speak a much clearer version of Spanish than most Chileans. But from my personal experience dealing with both Movistar and VTR support over the phone, it's pretty rare to be able to actually get something done, regardless of the nationality on the other end. Haitians are completely useless, imho, while Colombians and Venezuelans, while eager to help, do not get enough support from their Chilean colleagues somewhere down the line, it seems. To get things done I go to Movistar or VTR offices and I have by now figured out the very few middle aged Chilean women there who get things done without mistakes. These rare gems usually have a line-up of people wanting to see specifically them regardless of the number in the line-up they were assigned by the system.
My wife talked to a wonderful Chilean woman at the VTR call center the other day. She quickly confirmed that my router was dead in less than 5 minutes (I am a retired techie type so this part is usually frustrating as they normally make you go through unecesary steps more than once), efficiently scheduled a tech appointment for the second day of the coming workweek and PROACTIVELY noticed our plan needed to be upgraded and took the steps so that we did not have to visit the local office.

My experience with both Movistar and VTR banda ancha/tele/phone in San Antonio has been extremely good, The techs always arrive on time and know enough to get the job done quickly. This time, the tech that came out was a blond haired dude that had a non-Chilean accent.

Regarding clearness, well yes I can understand them better than 55% of Chileans but I have noticed it goes both ways. Chileans can't understand and don't have the flexibility to interpret my heavy gringo accented Spanish but for some reason, non-Chilean Spanish speakers do so I can understand how a more "real" closer to the crown Spanish can be difficult for a Chilean who unconsciously expect and demand the Chilean way of speaking. I have had instances where non-Chilean Spanish speaking tourists come up to me for directions perhaps because they find attempting to communicate with an impatient Chilean daunting.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:15 pm

the only time i have had a colombian or Peruvian ask me what i said, was when i was honestly mumbling.

the chilean girl at my local store that i have been shopping at for years, still acts like she does not understand what i want. one day i was not in the mood for it. i said, "after 6+ years of shopping here, i should be able to grunt in chinese and you should be able to figure out what i want". her boss was in the store over hearing it (he is not chilean). she finaly quit doing it.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:50 am

Last week I got a VTR 200 Mb internet connection. It worked OK, but the modem supplied was acting as a Router, handing out private IP addresses. Since we already have a router, incoming connections were being double NAT'ted.

Based on quite a few negative experiences with various Tech Supports here, with low expectations I called VTR and explained the situation to a lady who, by the clarity of her speech, was evidently not Chilean.

She said "OK, you want to put the modem into Bridge Mode"

<Gasps> "Yes! that's exactly what I want"

"OK, give us 10 minutes, and call back if you have any problems."

Outstanding.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:08 am

The new Arris router they installed for my 30 connection has the password to access the router/modem settings printed on the sticker below. I was impressed that I no longer needed to do bridge and use my aging wifi router like with their previous POS VTR modem/router box and now this box is doing seperate 2.5 and 5 Ghz wifi networks and wired devices with IP reservation and MAC filtering.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by fraggle092 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:00 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:08 am
The D-Link router they installed for my 30 connection has the password to access the router/modem settings printed on the sticker below. I was impressed that I no longer needed to do bridge and use my aging wifi router like with their previous POS VTR modem/router box and now this box is doing seperate 2.5 and 5 Ghz wifi networks and wired devices with IP reservation and MAC filtering.
Yeah, VTR seems a lot more open about letting users access their routers these days, and for most users the configuration options are OK. But I run two WANs and two separate LANs. I dont think its easy to get a Dynamic DNS service working behind two routers either. Horses for courses as the English say.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:13 pm

Bachelet's parting gift to Chile, more slums. You know like all the other ones that just keep on giving (or taking). Chile was making real progress in getting slums and extreme poverty among Chileans under control, but I guess that was starting to undermine the socialist voter base.

Rise in number of slums in Chile:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chil ... SKCN1OP1DJ

Along the same lines, there is this narrative being pushed by the left these days (and the government is not really pushing back on), "all those immigrants just melted in to the work force in Chile and are doing great".

I am in Puerto Montt at the Sodimac store. There is the same Haiten girl outside selling candy bars the last few months. Go down the street to Lider. Two or three Haitens selling candy bars on the street.

I stop at an intersection in the center of Puerto Montt, and there is a dozen Haitens selling candy bars on the street. Next intersection another half dozen or so Haitens.

You can tell their Haiten by the incredible amount of winter clothing they wear. Like a wool winter hat, ski jacket, even gloves on a 70+ degree really sunny hot day in southern Chile; to the point when I seen a single black guy crossing the street in just a T-shirt I joked to my wife, "he is definitely not Haiten, He was probably born in northern Canada".

Now in fairness to their chosen profession, there was a study done a while back that street sellers can easily top over a million pesos a month, tax free. So, it might be one of the better paying jobs in Puerto Montt. So perhaps we give it a while, and see if they branch out in to more productive entrepreneurially areas. Chile can only eat so many candy bars while waiting for a light to change.

That is all fine and dandy. My issue however is, I am not convinced that the immigration "amnesty" really did manage to "regularize" the legal status as much as the government would like to make everyone believe; and, I am also not convinced they have managed to stop the illegal immigration as much as they would like to spin in the news.

However, considering a lot of people are still waiting for their paperwork, it will probably be a year or two before there really is any sort of accounting related to the impact. We know the numbers that took advantage of the amnesty at immigration, did not come anywhere close to the number of immigrants that are known to be in the country.

The particular problem with the slums, especially up north is, it creates a moving target. It takes time for the goverment and NGO's to asses the situation, put together a plan and resources, then execute. By allowing an uncontrolled flow of poor immigrants, it becomes a game of Whac-A-Mole, where you reduce poverty in one slum, just to have three more pop-up somewhere else, and most likely due to their legal status, much harder to nail down what is needed to solve it (e.g. how many people, are they permanent or transient, etc).

In the bigger picture of the regional migration flows, we still have the Venezuela story going on. Estimates are there is another 3 million+ in 2019 set to leave Venezuela, and that is most likly without some sort conflict breaking out there.

A recent article I read pointed out that Europe came unhinged with about a million people immigrating from the syria conflict. Colombia, estimates they have accepted over a million people. What will triple that look like? Peru and Colombia are both rapidly reaching their limit, which is going to push more Venezuelans out to other countries, legal or illegal.
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