chile's migration crisis

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nwdiver
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by nwdiver » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:00 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:48 pm
Yea i dont touch uncooked seafood, unless i really know the restaurant.

I wont even touch suishi in santiago anymore. Too far from the coast. I want to know that fish was happly swimming in the ocean in the morning, before i permently ruined its day.
Fish for sushi should be first blast frozen to minimum of -22C, never fresh, well prawns can be fresh but must be alive before I see them prepared.......
It's all about the wine.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:48 pm

Seen a stat go by today that around 350,000 venezuelans are now in peru, while over a million venezuelans have moved to colombia in the last 15 months.

http://www.latercera.com/pulso/noticia/ ... os/206571/
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:58 pm

So we have had some speculation about how would the wave of recent immigrants vote, left or right, once they qualify to vote.

Well, seems colombia has an early preview, and the venezuelans in colombia sure dont seem to be chearing for a socialists.

http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation- ... 90354.html
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:16 pm

Who would have thought a maasive uncontrol immigration wave would result in massive problems in the health care system?

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 00528.html
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by Gloria » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:40 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:16 pm
Who would have thought a maasive uncontrol immigration wave would result in massive problems in the health care system?

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 00528.html
What else there's to be expected with a massive forced invasion? Is been happening for years in Europe and look at the mess in Italy. Finally someone is taking drastic measures to stop the madness created by so many including NGO's, Red Cross, the Jesuits, the Vatican and many others. Is totally criminal!
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:10 pm

Gloria wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:40 pm
admin wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:16 pm
Who would have thought a maasive uncontrol immigration wave would result in massive problems in the health care system?

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 00528.html
What else there's to be expected with a massive forced invasion? Is been happening for years in Europe and look at the mess in Italy. Finally someone is taking drastic measures to stop the madness created by so many including NGO's, Red Cross, the Jesuits, the Vatican and many others. Is totally criminal!
I can understand those that may oppose immigration for whatever reasons, but what I would like to know what any solutions are ? it's all very well to say keep them out of my country, because I had the good fortune to be born here or enough money to get in here. This isnt a criticism it's a genuine question, and one I wonder about often . What do you do with people who are born in shit hole countries ? Just say "ah well screw them I'm all right" and expect them to better their own country ? What if it's a shitty African country plauged by drought and Warlords ?
Do you throw money at them and hope for the best ? That's coming from your taxes anyway, and will probably not go to the right place, or as I said before do you just say "sort your own shit out", and ignore the problem and shoot them if they try to get into your country?
It's easy to tell them to fyck off and they are not welcome, but it's a lot harder to find an actual solution. I mean 2 billion (or more) people are not just going to disappear when they have nothing, they will fight tooth and nail to survive by getting to a better place, like they have for hundreds (thousands) of years , humans have migrated to better places since the cave man times. It's so easy to fall back on the " pull up the drawbridge " policy, but I would like someone to actually offer some actual ideas rather than all the rhetoric that has been going on for as long as immigration has been happening.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by Gloria » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:42 pm

41southchile wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:10 pm
Gloria wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:40 pm
admin wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:16 pm
Who would have thought a maasive uncontrol immigration wave would result in massive problems in the health care system?

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 00528.html
What else there's to be expected with a massive forced invasion? Is been happening for years in Europe and look at the mess in Italy. Finally someone is taking drastic measures to stop the madness created by so many including NGO's, Red Cross, the Jesuits, the Vatican and many others. Is totally criminal!
I can understand those that may oppose immigration for whatever reasons, but what I would like to know what any solutions are ? it's all very well to say keep them out of my country, because I had the good fortune to be born here or enough money to get in here. This isnt a criticism it's a genuine question, and one I wonder about often . What do you do with people who are born in shit hole countries ? Just say "ah well screw them I'm all right" and expect them to better their own country ? What if it's a shitty African country plauged by drought and Warlords ?
Do you throw money at them and hope for the best ? That's coming from your taxes anyway, and will probably not go to the right place, or as I said before do you just say "sort your own shit out", and ignore the problem and shoot them if they try to get into your country?
It's easy to tell them to fyck off and they are not welcome, but it's a lot harder to find an actual solution. I mean 2 billion (or more) people are not just going to disappear when they have nothing, they will fight tooth and nail to survive by getting to a better place, like they have for hundreds (thousands) of years , humans have migrated to better places since the cave man times. It's so easy to fall back on the " pull up the drawbridge " policy, but I would like someone to actually offer some actual ideas rather than all the rhetoric that has been going on for as long as immigration has been happening.
Why everybody is mixing "immigration" with "invasion"? In a very simple way, laws have been created to keep discipline, organization and guidelines in a human society and all of us are obliged to those rules and regulations. When you are trespassing someone elses´s property without any regard, that´s called an invasion. Let´s assume a group of poor people that have no place to go takes possession of the land you are trying to sell right now for a price and start building shacks and then goes to your house and eats all the food you bought for the month.....would you stand by and say.....oh well....?
Countries have governments and those governments are responsible for their own citizens, not the neighbor on the other side of the borders over the mountains or in another continent. And then you have the United Nations. Let´s take the example of Haiti, a country part of the shitty league. Haiti has been always poor mostly due to bad "management", corruption and low IQ. With the quake of 2010 , already a country in a sewage, it got even deeper in the turd world. Do you have any idea how much Haiti got to rebuild from all over the world? MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in capital letters, so much that they didn´t know what to do with all that money. The RED CROSS was suppose to start the rebuilding and they did.......but how many houses they built? SIX!!! 6 damm houses!! and I could go on and on.Do a little research and follow the money...it will make you cringe! Are the Haitians doing anything to improve their country at least by cleaning their streets of all the shit they dispose or by teaching others not to litter or teaching women they need not to have anymore kids after number 2 and how to prevent them? And what did they do? Invade other countries! Does the rest of the world be responsible for anything and everything a country goes thru? No!
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by Gloria » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:32 pm

Going back to your question..... "I would like to know what any solutions are ?" I believe the UN should have some idea of what can be done. They are the ones receiving all the benefits and giving none. There are hundreds of charities organizations all over the world to help those in need however greed and corruption gets in the way. Moving them to other countries to put the burden in someone else´s shoulders is not the solution. It creates resentment and waves of crime.
Not an easy solution. We could talk about til the cows come home but won´t be any results due to its complexity. Although many want a world without border......it will never happen. Countries without borders is like a home without doors and doors were made to keep others OUT!
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

41southchile
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:19 pm

Gloria wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:42 pm
41southchile wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:10 pm
Gloria wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:40 pm
admin wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:16 pm
Who would have thought a maasive uncontrol immigration wave would result in massive problems in the health care system?

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 00528.html
What else there's to be expected with a massive forced invasion? Is been happening for years in Europe and look at the mess in Italy. Finally someone is taking drastic measures to stop the madness created by so many including NGO's, Red Cross, the Jesuits, the Vatican and many others. Is totally criminal!
I can understand those that may oppose immigration for whatever reasons, but what I would like to know what any solutions are ? it's all very well to say keep them out of my country, because I had the good fortune to be born here or enough money to get in here. This isnt a criticism it's a genuine question, and one I wonder about often . What do you do with people who are born in shit hole countries ? Just say "ah well screw them I'm all right" and expect them to better their own country ? What if it's a shitty African country plauged by drought and Warlords ?
Do you throw money at them and hope for the best ? That's coming from your taxes anyway, and will probably not go to the right place, or as I said before do you just say "sort your own shit out", and ignore the problem and shoot them if they try to get into your country?
It's easy to tell them to fyck off and they are not welcome, but it's a lot harder to find an actual solution. I mean 2 billion (or more) people are not just going to disappear when they have nothing, they will fight tooth and nail to survive by getting to a better place, like they have for hundreds (thousands) of years , humans have migrated to better places since the cave man times. It's so easy to fall back on the " pull up the drawbridge " policy, but I would like someone to actually offer some actual ideas rather than all the rhetoric that has been going on for as long as immigration has been happening.
Why everybody is mixing "immigration" with "invasion"? In a very simple way, laws have been created to keep discipline, organization and guidelines in a human society and all of us are obliged to those rules and regulations. When you are trespassing someone elses´s property without any regard, that´s called an invasion. Let´s assume a group of poor people that have no place to go takes possession of the land you are trying to sell right now for a price and start building shacks and then goes to your house and eats all the food you bought for the month.....would you stand by and say.....oh well....?
Countries have governments and those governments are responsible for their own citizens, not the neighbor on the other side of the borders over the mountains or in another continent. And then you have the United Nations. Let´s take the example of Haiti, a country part of the shitty league. Haiti has been always poor mostly due to bad "management", corruption and low IQ. With the quake of 2010 , already a country in a sewage, it got even deeper in the turd world. Do you have any idea how much Haiti got to rebuild from all over the world? MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in capital letters, so much that they didn´t know what to do with all that money. The RED CROSS was suppose to start the rebuilding and they did.......but how many houses they built? SIX!!! 6 damm houses!! and I could go on and on.Do a little research and follow the money...it will make you cringe! Are the Haitians doing anything to improve their country at least by cleaning their streets of all the shit they dispose or by teaching others not to litter or teaching women they need not to have anymore kids after number 2 and how to prevent them? And what did they do? Invade other countries! Does the rest of the world be responsible for anything and everything a country goes thru? No!
OK I will do some more research on the money trail and get back to you, although as you say it goes up into areas and levels of power we cant reliably access I guess, so I guess all of this is speculation? , I kind of get what you are saying, there is obviously money behind it, but there is money behind everything in the world. So its the invasion of the Haitians thats the problem at the moment, specifically ? or the invasion in Europe too of Africans and Middle east citizens ? thats all orchastrated as well by dodgy charities and the UN ? How about the Venezualans are they an invasion too, or the Colombians? . I am just trying to get my head around the differencce, and hope I am not coming accross as a smart arse. Where there is misery there will always be people looking to make a profit that is unfortunately what the opportunists will do, yes some of the charaties are useless I have experienced that first hand in a disaster zone, mostly incompetent mostly due to becoming too top heavy, a bit like the corporate world or anything large and unweildy, but sometimes corrupt too like we have seen with oxfam workers, but any corporation or charity is only as good as the individuals that make it up, its not some independent being that conspires to invade countries, or is it ?
I wish organisations were all that organised and co ordinated that they could orchastrate something so big like you suggest, because on one hand they are all corrupt and dysfunctional but on the other they are behind a massive campaign of mass invasions of differeent nationalities, again sorry if I sound like a smart arse again, but i just cant tell which one it is, they are corrupt and ervyone is out for themselves ? or they are all working in unison to overthrow individual governments?
You say the Haitians have been mismanaged and have a low IQ, so how are they expected to pick up trash and clean up their streets or teach women to have no kids if they have no education? thats what you would do or I would do, as we are not mismanaged and have a good IQ, but its certainly not what a lot of people living in shitty parts (or even good parts) or Puerto Montt do either, they expect someone else to pick it up for them, or they dont seem to see it as an issue. Maybe the haitians are trying to surrvive and dont see trying to pick up trash in the street in a shit hole country as a priority.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

41southchile
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:39 pm

Gloria wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:32 pm
Going back to your question..... "I would like to know what any solutions are ?" I believe the UN should have some idea of what can be done. They are the ones receiving all the benefits and giving none. There are hundreds of charities organizations all over the world to help those in need however greed and corruption gets in the way. Moving them to other countries to put the burden in someone else´s shoulders is not the solution. It creates resentment and waves of crime.
Not an easy solution. We could talk about til the cows come home but won´t be any results due to its complexity. Although many want a world without border......it will never happen. Countries without borders is like a home without doors and doors were made to keep others OUT!
So the UN is part of the solution or part of the problem ? The world would be seriously more screwed over and Europe would of been truely overrun by now if it wasnt for the hundreds of Charities that do great work in shot hole countries, yes there are crap ones too, but thats life. There is a list of reasons why countries are poor and shitty, generally its geogrpraphy too, not just corruption, although that plays an important part. If people had the freedom to move wherever they want in the world, do you think those shitty countries would last long ? Eventually people are going to have to face reality anyway or be happy to face a mass die off from the outsides of their borders if they dont want a world without borders, and imprision or kill those they dont want in their country. A world without border? you are right, it will not happen, it hasnt happened in thousands of years so probably wont happen for a few more thousand years, so all of what we are talking about is kind of insignificant really, in the grand scheme of things, by then we will be a brain on a robot going through space and wont give a shit whats happening on earth, as the ones that can afford it wont live down here anyway they will have their castle somewhere else in another galaxy. Countries are like medievil castles with walls around them. Doors were also made to open and let your neighbour in when his house burns down.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by admin » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:32 am

at the heart of every single mass migration is mass corruption. Yea some countries have wars, famions, etc, but shit happens everywhere. They are symptoms, more than cause of corruption. Those distasters become amplified when corrupt leadership either do not want or can not react.

Corruption thrives in chaose. Poverty thrives and flows where people have no confidence that the rules might change at any moment.

Corruption is only possible where there is no transparency and accountability to the leadership.

That is true in third world 'shit hole' countries, and it is true of that first world 'shit hole' in washignton D.C.

The developed countries are all very much to blaim, as they have supported and encouraged corruption where ever it has suited their short-term political or economic ends.
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Re: chile's migration crisis

Post by Gloria » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:53 am

Listen, I´m not opposed at all to immigration. It could be a good thing in many ways to fill the voids but immigration should be in an orderly fashion, regulated as it should be in a civilized world, not as it is happening now....a "human tsunami". Nothing good will come out of this. If it´s not stopped and regulated, it will create another war....a war of survival.
Let´s take a look at Italy for a minute.The population of Italy is 60.600 +- millions and it has 300.000 plus of land. Italy has taken in 6 million plus of immigrants mostly from northern and other parts of Africa. Doesn´t the world thinks is enough? Don´t the italians have the right to refuse entrance whether those are rich or poor, in war or peace time? When enough is enough? Aren´t they entitled to say who goes or stay for the preservation of their race, customs, culture and way of living? Absolutely!
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

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