What would you want with land in Chile ?

All things related to Moving to Chile, tips, tricks, FAQS. Here is where to exchange information between those that have already moved and those planning to move to Chile so you do not need to learn the hard way. Please also check Living in Chile forum for related information.
Post Reply
User avatar
fraggle092
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: In Chile

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:56 am

Julito wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Something that might be worth considering, don't make them all 5000sq. mtr parcelas. Offer choice in lot sizes, not everybody wants to maintain 5000 sq. mts
There's a very good reason for that minimum size.

Never heard of loteos brujos? Big problem in Chile that often goes unreported.
Après moi, le déluge

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by 41southchile » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:04 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:56 am
Julito wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Something that might be worth considering, don't make them all 5000sq. mtr parcelas. Offer choice in lot sizes, not everybody wants to maintain 5000 sq. mts
There's a very good reason for that minimum size.

Never heard of loteos brujos? Big problem in Chile that often goes unreported.
Yeah big problem around Puerto Varas too, the municipal is finally cracking down with legal action for sellers of those types of loteos, and in the end the buyers don't even have a legal title so who knows where they will end up legally speaking.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

Julito
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Villarrica

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by Julito » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:12 pm

I hadn't heard of it as such. I asked my wife and it seems I had, just not "as such". Her son encountered a potential problem with it earlier in the year and hit quick reverse.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:03 am

Britkid wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:35 am
I wonder if you are going to sell 1-2 lots first rather than prepare and put on the market a large number at once. That way, you can learn as you go and avoid mistakes and wasted investment upfront? You can still have a grand plan and do all the lots in the same style, just tweaking as you go.

Are you going to be a registered condominio with a gate which is guarded at least some of the time. Whatever the legalities of that, I think if you can work together as a community you can achieve more, including higher prices for the land.

If your gut feeling about someone trying to buy is bad, just trust it and don't sell to them. It only sometimes takes one bad one to fuck things up for everyone.

Electric cars - I could be wrong I'm not convinced you need a separate charging point unless the car can't be parked near the house. Just have a plug socket on the exterior of the house.

Recyling - attitudes are changing very very slowly, but for the time being I'm not convinced many people in Chile would pay for recycling. If you are going to be a condominio with gastos comunes you could make it part of that overall fee, but if it is a separate charge most people would not pay it would be guess.

I didn't read all the comments too carefully so sorry if anything already covered.
Yeah, that's the plan, not to do everything at once and learn as we go, and it has been a learning experience so far, believe me. We also don't want to release all the lots at the same time.

Yes there will be a guarded gate and the idea is the residents form their own committee after a couple of years (we do in the early stages)and then have an elected committee of three members to run and administer assets and infrastructure in their neigbourhood.

Yeah I have heard of horror stories in otro loteos where one or two neighbours have screwed it up for the people living there, guy feeling is good, my wife's gut feeling is also better than mine and she can normally pick people and what they will be like quicker than me.

Looking at electric cars you may be right with that I agree and don't know if having a special charger will be of any benefit at the moment, I will probably just place that on the back burner for the meantime and see how the technology plays out over the next year or two, the electric car fleet in Chile is still so insignificant at the moment without any impulse coming from central government it will stay that way.

Recycling is one that I have been going over and over, sometimes I like the carrot approach rather than the stick, and am working on a couple of things there to provide something, but first I need to work out where recycling goes here in the South of Chile.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:20 am

Julito wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Love it, sounds like they come across as used car salesmen attempting to separate fools from their money. Oddly though, it sounds people are buying into apartments at those prices in those locations. Culture, a far larger proportion of people from Santiago have only ever lived in apartments (similar to big city Europeans) so to lash out big bucks on a lock and leave holiday apartment as an escape destination from the rat race is seen as a step up in life.

Capital gains are normally lower with apartments because they just build more to meet the demand. It's the adjacent land which shoots up in value due to its apartment construction potential. Well located land/house with full services available will do better.

Something that might be worth considering, don't make them all 5000sq. mtr parcelas. Offer choice in lot sizes, not everybody wants to maintain 5000 sq. mts. About 4 yrs ago a well located farm on the main road between Villarrica and Pucon was subdivided into parecelas, views to the volcano and down to the lake, bitumen roads throughout and straight out onto the road. As of yet there's not one house been constructed. To be honest I don't know why, the vende signs are still there but the only thing I could think of was perhaps the blocks are too big. Or perhaps the the bloody bank got the lot!
Yeah it was cheesy, like used car salesman at a conference in Vegas, I don't mean to keep going on about the sexy girls as it makes me sound like a dirty ol man, but honestly what is the point of them in 2018 at a real estate expo, if I wanted to see women dressed like that I would go to a strip club, not to an expo to looks for my first house with the wife (not my case this time but there were a lot of youngish couples there looking for a first home) (honestly they were some of the most innapropriatly dressed promotadoras I have ever seen) Anyway I won't go on about it as everyone knows what it's like, most people in Chile just don't even find anything strange about it , just like dogs living in the street, it's just something that doesn't even register with Chileans.

Talking about used car sales dealers, aka real estate agents in Chile, there is a plan before, that looks like it may become law this year, that will create registration and registry of real estate agents in Chile.


http://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/2 ... dades.html
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16807
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by admin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:35 am

41southchile wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:04 pm
fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:56 am
Julito wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Something that might be worth considering, don't make them all 5000sq. mtr parcelas. Offer choice in lot sizes, not everybody wants to maintain 5000 sq. mts
There's a very good reason for that minimum size.

Never heard of loteos brujos? Big problem in Chile that often goes unreported.
Yeah big problem around Puerto Varas too, the municipal is finally cracking down with legal action for sellers of those types of loteos, and in the end the buyers don't even have a legal title so who knows where they will end up legally speaking.
they are actually seriously talking about criminally prosecuting the sellers of such lots.

Another reason for expats to be very, very careful with any of these expat scams ¨communities¨ using things like complex corporate structures and fuzzy ownership contracts, that may or may not be legal. Just buy a piece of land.

41southchile is doing it right. He is selling straight lots, with clear titles, with the various common community area.

When all is said and done, you should have at least full ownership of a piece of dirt somewhere inside the boarders of Chile. Not some piece of paper that is a promise to a promise to promise, that you might or might not own something.

Closely related, STOP BUYING PROPERTY IN CHILE USING COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!

there is no advantage. In fact, we are having a lot of gringos, that insisted on do it or were talked in to placing their property in a company, getting just crushed with the taxes when they sell. They took a relatively low tax investment, and by sticking it in a company with no other activities, turned it in to a high tax liability.

Even if you have legit business reason to form a company to own property, there is still almost no good reason to place the property in the company. Perhaps, perhaps, if you were some super large real estate investor, with lots of expenses to offset, it might be worth it. Even big developers, often hold property in a personal name (the IRS had to put a stop to it), because the taxes are lower and the property is more protected.

In almost every other case, it is just creating an expensive hassle that really provides you no protection from creditors, taxes, etc. the legal system in Chile is not common law like it is in the U.S. or U.K., and the tax system is completely different.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
nwdiver
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 2919
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC and Chile where ever it's Summer
Contact:

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by nwdiver » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:29 pm

I know a mid sized developer who hold 7 properties at a time, one in the name of each of his children, I was there when a 22 year old daughter asked, daddy what property do I own today?
It's all about the wine.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16807
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by admin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:48 pm

Yea the last tax reform actuelly went out of their way to catch "habitual property sellers" that kept property in their own name, while everything else stayed in the company.

In fact the one time, life time property tax exemption at the time of sale, created by the last tax reform was done specifically with that in mind. It is around 165 million pesos of real estate (dont have the exact calculatiin in uf on hand) that is free and clear, before the property sales tax kicks in. So you can say sell a house or two, or perhaps a bunch small lots through out your life, and be fine. Once you sell more than that, the tax kicks in.

So for example my wife and i take turns putting one property in her name, one my name, to max that out as much as possible when we finally do get ready to sell.

However, put that same property in a corporation, the wrong way, with a foreign none-resident partner to the company, and you are on the hook for something like 35% tax, maintaining the company, etc, etc, and you better have bought one hell of property to offset your tax situation.

I have also kicked around the idea of directly buying some properties in the names of our nephews and nieces, that are in line to inherit anyway. Hell, if i am going to pay taxes on their inheretance.

I instead came up with a better solution. It is called "the not my problem tax dodge". I will be dead. Im giving them a property, and i have to worry about their taxes after im dead?

Really not my problem. They are all smart. They can figure that out.

Point is, for most people buying a little bit of property in chile, just keep it simple and in your name.

Save the corporate structure for when you are ready to do your IPO on the stock exchange or something.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

Julito
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Villarrica

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by Julito » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:57 pm

Great free advice, thanks Charles.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by 41southchile » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:18 am

admin wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:35 am
41southchile wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:04 pm
fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:56 am
Julito wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:05 pm
Something that might be worth considering, don't make them all 5000sq. mtr parcelas. Offer choice in lot sizes, not everybody wants to maintain 5000 sq. mts
There's a very good reason for that minimum size.

Never heard of loteos brujos? Big problem in Chile that often goes unreported.
Yeah big problem around Puerto Varas too, the municipal is finally cracking down with legal action for sellers of those types of loteos, and in the end the buyers don't even have a legal title so who knows where they will end up legally speaking.
they are actually seriously talking about criminally prosecuting the sellers of such lots.

Another reason for expats to be very, very careful with any of these expat scams ¨communities¨ using things like complex corporate structures and fuzzy ownership contracts, that may or may not be legal. Just buy a piece of land.

41southchile is doing it right. He is selling straight lots, with clear titles, with the various common community area.

When all is said and done, you should have at least full ownership of a piece of dirt somewhere inside the boarders of Chile. Not some piece of paper that is a promise to a promise to promise, that you might or might not own something.

Closely related, STOP BUYING PROPERTY IN CHILE USING COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!

there is no advantage. In fact, we are having a lot of gringos, that insisted on do it or were talked in to placing their property in a company, getting just crushed with the taxes when they sell. They took a relatively low tax investment, and by sticking it in a company with no other activities, turned it in to a high tax liability.

Even if you have legit business reason to form a company to own property, there is still almost no good reason to place the property in the company. Perhaps, perhaps, if you were some super large real estate investor, with lots of expenses to offset, it might be worth it. Even big developers, often hold property in a personal name (the IRS had to put a stop to it), because the taxes are lower and the property is more protected.

In almost every other case, it is just creating an expensive hassle that really provides you no protection from creditors, taxes, etc. the legal system in Chile is not common law like it is in the U.S. or U.K., and the tax system is completely different.
Yes thats exactly what we sell, straight lots with clear titles, YOU OWN the land, not rights to occupy or whatever other scams there are out there. I have seen a few variations and warned a few other gringos off them up around Ensenada.
As far as I understand the owners subdivde less than 5000 metres (5000 is minimum area in rural areas) but it's not a subdivision as such, all it is, is rights to occupy part of the land (1000sqm por ejemplo) between the owner and "buyer" . Troubles normally arise when the original owner dies and benefactors inherent the land, the "buyer" has nothing if the beneficiaries don't want to respect the agreement.
It is also difficult to impossible to connect legal electric services and water or get building permits. After a long time the authorities are finally starting to prosecute the people responsible for these illegal subdivisions, there's going to be a long process now to try and unwind all the legal problems.
Unless you have clear title in the property when you buy it don't go near it, you are only exposing yourself to big troubles and legal issues in the future.
Especially for gringos, I can not understand why someone would even contemplate a structure that does not give legal title to them and their property, in a country that offers more rights to foreigners buying land than just about any other country I can think of off the top of my head.
Shares or rights to occupy are a complicated and potentially dangerous way to invest in property in Chile. Just own it yourself.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by 41southchile » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:58 am

Thanks everyone for replys and suggestions, have got some good ideas for different aspects of our development, some reenforcing what I already thought and others that opened my eyes to other things. I realise you can never create some kind of utopia, boiling it down I guess Im just looking to make a loteo/community that is not crap and not full of crap people, maybe that is utopia ?
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
hlf2888
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 675
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: seventh region

Re: What would you want with land in Chile ?

Post by hlf2888 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:05 am

41southchile wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:51 am
HybridAmbassador wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:40 pm
I thought that the " EL LECHERO" did this Finca lot of his, subdivision years ago? Is this a new venture thingy going on? yeah, I'm all on this
Utopian village scheme. Go on, build that perfect loteo ..Someday wanting to slip overnight up in the tree house !...
Ah, but it was me all along, EL LECHERO. I talked about it when I was still struggling away with my 100 or so cows, but then saw the light and decided there was a better way. I dont really believe in Utopia but certainly dont want to live in a dystopia, and believe in a better way of doing things or at least some form of continuous improvement.
Hello El Lechero... why did you change your name to 41southchile?

Post Reply