What would you want with land in Chile ?

[41southchile]

So as a few of you may know me I have been coming into the forum (under a couple of different user names) for nearly 6 years now I guess, as that’s how long we have lived here permanently. I have been coming to Chile on and off since 1995 when I first landed in San Fernando as an exchange student at the local Marist school.

At the moment we are subdividing off our land, we used to have dairy cows on our farm and also managed to get mortgages in Chile somehow (which is and has been a painful experience). A couple of years ago The price went south on dairy , and dairy farming in Chile is not dairy farming in New Zealand, so we sold our cows, and started to sub divide our land.

It has been an interesting experience to say the least, but we have met some cool people, who have bought from us and are developing and starting their own lives here, and we continue to develop our project, which has matured this year after a couple of false starts and working with people who didn’t really have a clue in areas we needed (but pretended they did)

The reason i am writing all this is because I am looking for some market research and inspiration as well as just good ideas from people like yourselves in the allchile forum.

Personally for me, as I probably will only get one shot at doing this, I want to have something that is not a typical Chilean Loteo, that’s not a put down of things Chilean, (well it’s trying not to be, it’s just my experience) it is just the way it is, yes there is always the exception, but in many loteos or subdivisions I have seen (and I’ve looked at a lot) they are simply not that great, some you might be able to call ok, but most are pretty lazily done with no eye for detail or practical things are missing, and some are just crap with no thought put into making them enjoyable places to live

That’s why I am asking for your help, I have met good people from on here and value the opinions of most of the people here, so I would like to hear any advice or suggestions from you and would like to know what sort of things that would make a loteo or rural subdivision (they are all sites of 5000 square metres minimum) a great place to live. If you were considering a purchase what services and infrastructure could clinch a deal for you if you were thinking of moving to Chile, either full time or seasonal? Even if you’re not, feel free to throw your 2 cents in, as people with a different point of view and outside Chile experience it all helps us.

There are many things we would like to do, and sometimes ideas can get carried away, but aside from the basic infrastructure, which will be underground electrical connections to the edge of each lot, which the lot owner applies to the local electric company for a connection into their house (it just looks so much better not having to look at power cables and power poles). Plus, water to each lot (which will be metered and charged to cover running costs, and a small fee for repairs and maintenance), which comes from our deep well and treatment plant which will have been approved by all the appropriate regulatory authorities. Internet is by way of a local internet company called sur red which supply wireless internet and they have a tower nearby, so we get internet good enough to be able to watch Netflix, there is no fibre cable anywhere near us, so cost would be too expensive, mobile data through Movistar works well and Entel coverage is patchy

We are leaving about 20 hectares of the property as it is, as natural fence between the road and the sections, this area is full of native forest regrowth and a few larger trees that were not cut down when the forest was exploited and mostly cut down in the 1990. it’s very nice full of trees approx. 3 to 4 metres and lots of birdlife, with a small creek, and there are a few corners where they missed cutting down that still have virgin forest. So, there will be walking tracks through there with, lookout points and rest stops with seats through this protected area.

I also want to get an electric car in the next couple of years, so want to install a charging station that others could use as well, I haven’t really done much investigation on that. The internal streets are wide and have ample turning spaces and there will also be footpaths/bike paths besides the roads. The internal streetlights (e.g. on corners) will be solar. As for the typical quincho and children’s playground (that no child ever plays in that I have seen on the loteos I have looked at) I would like to have something that others don’t have, e.g. a tree house that you or your guests can stay the night in, or some hot tubs in the forest with a view of the volcanoes, even if no one else uses them I certainly would.

As for services I want to offer a recycling service, so would have to either build that into the upfront cost or see if people are willing to pay monthly (lots of people like to talk the environmental talk but when it comes to funding it....) I am also offering planting and landscaping services subcontracting out the staff that I have employed permanently, it is not high end exterior design things but more standard things like planting trees and handyman things like that. I am reluctant to get into building supervision, for clients using builders that I do not know, there are some services I can offer though.

Any thoughts, comments or questions happy to reply here or by PM too.

Thanks for your time


Matt

[at46]

When I'm thinking about living in a house here in Chile, I'm worried about security (leaving it unsupervised for an extended period of time); noise, as in dogs barking and vecinos partying (and the management company's (in)ability to enforce strict charter rules); dust from unpaved roads; availability of services - from shopping to cleaning to medical in-house care; the cost and hassle of having to drive to get every little thing; for people with kids availability of school bus service will obviously be a factor. Forest fires. I like your idea of hiding electrical wiring underground but I think it's actually more important to have some commonality to house designs to avoid an ugly looking loteo with everyone free to build whatever the hell they want.

[hlf2888]

Not hearing my neighbor's music is a biggie. With only 5000 square meters, one would be treated everyday to god-awful repetitive noise loosely called music. When I lived in town, it nearly drove me crazy.

[Gloria]

Uff! You are opening a Pandora's Box with this one! Ideas and comments you'll get plenty and trying to apply them and pleasing everyone will be an impossibility. What's the concept here.... to build a town, a community or a condominium? Chilean, american or european style? Will the sale of lots be selective?

[HybridAmbassador]

I thought that the " EL LECHERO" did this Finca lot of his, subdivision years ago? Is this a new venture thingy going on? yeah, I'm all on this
Utopian village scheme. Go on, build that perfect loteo ..Someday wanting to slip overnight up in the tree house !

[KDnR]

That is a very interesting question. I spend countless hours studying this subject, reading forums, blogs and anything I could find to help me to come up with the best idea for the project we are doing in Chile. Never thought of the idea asking about it on the forum like you did. Well... I will follow this thread very closely. Good luck with your project! We need more people that actually will get something done instead of complaining that nothing is possible to get done in Chile and that everything is a fraud.

[Gloria]

We need more people that actually will get something done instead of complaining that nothing is possible to get done in Chile and that everything is a fraud.

Many have tried, many have failed. You should ask those that did and got nowhere........

Chilean retailing is full of paradoxes. Largely comprised of clothing shops, supermarkets and companies that provide home furnishings and construction materials, the sector has repeatedly seen its greatest international competitors arrive in the country with expectations of indisputable success. Yet, little by little, these competitors have had no alternative but to leave Chile because of imminent losses.



That’s what happened to JC Penney, the largest department store chain in the United States. It has about 1,000 stores in the U.S. and Puerto Rico. JC Penney arrived in Chile in 1995, opening two stores in Santiago. After five years of operating in the red, JC Penney felt obliged to sell its assets to its local competitor, Almacenes Paris, according to “Foreign Investment in Latin America and the Caribbean,” a study published by the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC) In 2005.



Another typical case was Carrefour, the French multinational, which has 50 years of experience in the supermarket sector. It came to Chile in 1998 but suffered results that were so poor that they put its entire business at risk. By 2003, Carrefour had no alternative but to sell its stores to D&S, its local competitor. The list of such cases keeps on growing, and it includes Home Depot. The largest U.S. retailer of hardware, Home Depot launched its first Chilean store in 1998, thanks to a strategic alliance with Falabella, its Chilean partner. In desperation, Home Depot decided to sell the seven stores it wound up operating in Chile within less than four years of its arrival.

Speaking honestly....I would sell all the lots and run....run...run without stopping!

[Gloria]

When I'm thinking about living in a house here in Chile, I'm worried about security (leaving it unsupervised for an extended period of time); noise, as in dogs barking and vecinos partying (and the management company's (in)ability to enforce strict charter rules); dust from unpaved roads; availability of services - from shopping to cleaning to medical in-house care; the cost and hassle of having to drive to get every little thing; for people with kids availability of school bus service will obviously be a factor. Forest fires. I like your idea of hiding electrical wiring underground but I think it's actually more important to have some commonality to house designs to avoid an ugly looking loteo with everyone free to build whatever the hell they want.

What you are looking for is an exclusive island with all the amenities..... certainly no chileans around.

[41southchile]

When I'm thinking about living in a house here in Chile, I'm worried about security (leaving it unsupervised for an extended period of time); noise, as in dogs barking and vecinos partying (and the management company's (in)ability to enforce strict charter rules); dust from unpaved roads; availability of services - from shopping to cleaning to medical in-house care; the cost and hassle of having to drive to get every little thing; for people with kids availability of school bus service will obviously be a factor. Forest fires. I like your idea of hiding electrical wiring underground but I think it's actually more important to have some commonality to house designs to avoid an ugly looking loteo with everyone free to build whatever the hell they want.

Lots of important considerations there, most of those things are achievable and have a solution just depends on how much you want to spend, expect for the dogs barking and vecinos partying, which is why filtering is important, although filtering is hard too, as sometimes people just don’t get it.
I have wondered and thought a lot about the house design aspect too, there are reglamentos or charter rules that advise what materials to use, or styles you can build, but as you mention not many developers enforce any of the rules, either they can’t be bothered with the legal process or just the culture, I don’t know? Other loteos have square metre minimum, presumably assuming you have money to build large you have money for quality materials, but you can still build a large piece of crap too. I like the idea of having architect appointed by the owners and the developers pre-approving building designs.

[41southchile]

We need more people that actually will get something done instead of complaining that nothing is possible to get done in Chile and that everything is a fraud.

Many have tried, many have failed. You should ask those that did and got nowhere........

Chilean retailing is full of paradoxes. Largely comprised of clothing shops, supermarkets and companies that provide home furnishings and construction materials, the sector has repeatedly seen its greatest international competitors arrive in the country with expectations of indisputable success. Yet, little by little, these competitors have had no alternative but to leave Chile because of imminent losses.



That’s what happened to JC Penney, the largest department store chain in the United States. It has about 1,000 stores in the U.S. and Puerto Rico. JC Penney arrived in Chile in 1995, opening two stores in Santiago. After five years of operating in the red, JC Penney felt obliged to sell its assets to its local competitor, Almacenes Paris, according to “Foreign Investment in Latin America and the Caribbean,” a study published by the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC) In 2005.



Another typical case was Carrefour, the French multinational, which has 50 years of experience in the supermarket sector. It came to Chile in 1998 but suffered results that were so poor that they put its entire business at risk. By 2003, Carrefour had no alternative but to sell its stores to D&S, its local competitor. The list of such cases keeps on growing, and it includes Home Depot. The largest U.S. retailer of hardware, Home Depot launched its first Chilean store in 1998, thanks to a strategic alliance with Falabella, its Chilean partner. In desperation, Home Depot decided to sell the seven stores it wound up operating in Chile within less than four years of its arrival.

Speaking honestly....I would sell all the lots and run....run...run without stopping!

I am no expert on big retail or familiar with these companies strategies in Chile so am not really in a position to say where these companies went wrong, (although I did remember seeing JC Penny in Stgo in 95 and found it very strange considering there was still not a lot of money and malls around in those days, the market would have been very limited to those that had seen that type of department store, Chile was way poorer and rural in 95, overseas travel was still very rare for most people, and JC Penny was probably before its time by 10 years ). But Im sure for every example of a company that has given up there is another that has done well, perhaps the others are a bit more under the radar or more nimble and and have just got on with the work at hand and made a go of it by adapting in all aspects.

Speaking honestly, where will I run too ? I Cant be bothered running, I like it here it works for me and for a lot of people I know here, so If Im going to be here a while I might as well put some thought into it.

[KDnR]

Many have tried, many have failed. You should ask those that did and got nowhere........

Speaking honestly....I would sell all the lots and run....run...run without stopping!

I understand that it is wise to do research and learn from the mistakes that other people make. Ask those people for the advice? No way. I want to get advice from those who are qualified and successful. Negative thoughts are like a poison.

For example If one decides to build a successful family, he should avoid advice from someone who has married already 5 times and about to get divorced again. Of course, the logical reason might be that he is the best person to ask advice because he has so much experience. However, it is wise to stay away from that person.

The success or failure are the products of the way the person thinks. I prefer not to ask losers.

Gloria, regarding your comment about selling and running... It excites me to get something done, where so many failed. It's not easy but possible and I am nowhere near thinking about to give up. But I really appreciate your honest advice.

[KDnR]

I am no expert on big retail or familiar with these companies strategies in Chile so am not really in a position to say where these companies went wrong, (although I did remember seeing JC Penny in Stgo in 95 and found it very strange considering there was still not a lot of money and malls around in those days, the market would have been very limited to those that had seen that type of department store, Chile was way poorer and rural in 95, overseas travel was still very rare for most people, and JC Penny was probably before its time by 10 years ). But Im sure for every example of a company that has given up there is another that has done well, perhaps the others are a bit more under the radar or more nimble and and have just got on with the work at hand and made a go of it by adapting in all aspects.

Speaking honestly, where will I run too ? I Cant be bothered running, I like it here it works for me and for a lot of people I know here, so If Im going to be here a while I might as well put some thought into it.

I also had this thought that JCPenny was here too early. But they are not doing good in the States also. Their business model did not get
adjusted somewhere, that is for sure.

I think smart decision not to run but make something successful on the small scale, improve it and grow bigger.