Hello from Frank

Introduce yourself, discover who else is here, and get news and information about the forum. Most of all, tell us what Chile means for you.

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fybian
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Hello from Frank

Post by fybian » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:07 am

Hi Everyone,
This is Frank. I am an astronomer, now based in Australia.
My family and I are moving to Santiago next year. Nice to meet everyone here!

Best Regards,
Frank

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by admin » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:20 am

welcome to the show.
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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by nikotromus » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:40 am

If you're keeping your salary from a first world country, they you should be fine. Chilean salaries are a pathetic joke.

I wish I had read the crap out of this forum and learned some Spanish before I got off of the boat. Sounds like you have some time to prepare. Buena suerte!

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by admin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:07 am

As an old business partner I had years ago was fond of saying, "the point of working for someone else is to get them ahead, not you".

You don't hear about too many billionaires, that became billionaires, working for someone else.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by admin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:16 am

In Chile, I would say that is even more true.

With a few exceptions (e.g. TV personalities, CEO of large companies, etc), if you want to make more than say about 3 million pesos a month, about $5,000 U.S., you have to work for yourself. The number of jobs that pay more than that, start to drop dramatically. Even the small number of jobs that pay more than that are around will likely require some combination of specialized education / skill, and contacts in the industry.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by nikotromus » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:52 am

+1. But there is also the option in Chile of working remotely for a company based in the first world. The expats I've met who have been here for a while are either working their own business or working remotely for the first world. I've only met one who works for a Chilean company as an English tutor. He makes next to nothing, but he's young and gets help from family to survive.

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by scandinavian » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:18 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:16 am
In Chile, I would say that is even more true.

With a few exceptions (e.g. TV personalities, CEO of large companies, etc), if you want to make more than say about 3 million pesos a month, about $5,000 U.S., you have to work for yourself. The number of jobs that pay more than that, start to drop dramatically. Even the small number of jobs that pay more than that are around will likely require some combination of specialized education / skill, and contacts in the industry.
I think that is quite an exageration. I would say the middle management and up in larger multinationals earn at least 5000 USD (some a lot more). Upper management in mid-size chilean companies probably above 5000 USD as well. CEO of large companies make substantial more than that.
I would say that mid-level / higher level public jobs would get around 5000 USD per month.
http://www.chilecompra.cl/transparencia ... iones.html

I do however agree with the general perspective - In order to become really wealthy, you should work for yourself.

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by nikotromus » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:59 pm

scandinavian wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:18 pm
admin wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:16 am
The number of jobs that pay more than that (5000 pesos per month), start to drop dramatically.
I think that is quite an exageration.
I don't see this as an exaggeration. And, I spelled exaggeration correctly, so I instantly have more credibility. :mrgreen: (of course I did have help from spell checker)

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by scandinavian » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:50 am

nikotromus wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:59 pm
scandinavian wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:18 pm
admin wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:16 am
The number of jobs that pay more than that (5000 pesos per month), start to drop dramatically.
I think that is quite an exageration.
I don't see this as an exaggeration. And, I spelled exaggeration correctly, so I instantly have more credibility. :mrgreen: (of course I did have help from spell checker)
Great with factual argumentation - did you have a look at the link? Earning more than 3MM a month is not unusual in public jobs. Have a look at Michael Page - when searching for jobs by payscale, 3MM is in the middle. That indicates to me that earning that is not unusual at all.
This is just an example, but a account manager with 3 years experience will in this case earn around 3MM.
https://www.michaelpage.cl/job-detail/a ... rce=search

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by nikotromus » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:10 am

I would argue that 60k a year is still very low in terms of a salary. Especially in Santiago, where everything is as expensive as it is. From my perspective of looking for work in the software industry, the advertised salaries I've seen reflect the same pay grade as a burger king night shift managers in the states. I'm definitely not seeing oceans of opportunity here. My wife has been looking and has found the same results. Our six figure salaries in the states translate to minimum wage jobs in Chile.

I believe that you've got to build your own business, work for a business here that is based in the first world, work remotely for a business in the first world or leave.

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by nikotromus » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:26 am

I also talk to people who actually live and work in Santiago. I talked to a guy with 6 years of experience as a Java back end engineer. They work him like a dog, and he makes 26k a year. He said his salary is typical. I asked him how he survives. He said that he lives with his grandmother to get by. Very sad. A simple google search will back up my perspective...

search: average software engineer salary in chile
"A Software Engineer earns an average salary of $27,360 per year. Most people with this job move on to other positions after 10 years in this field."

search: average software engineer salary in usa
"The average pay for a Software Engineer is $80,825 per year. Most people move on to other jobs if they have more than 20 years' experience in this career."

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Re: Hello from Frank

Post by admin » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 am

That is why I said, "with a few exceptions (e.g. TV personalities, CEO of large companies, etc)...".

and also why I said, you will need some sort of better than average education (one of the top ten universities in Chile, or foreign university), and you will need connections and contacts.

Yea, there are a lot of people in Chile that make more than 3 million a month. Perhaps it would make someone feel better if I said, 5 or 10 million a month; but, the reality is that for a vast majority of employees in this country there is a pretty hard glass ceiling of earning potential once you get to a certain level without the right education and contacts. A foreigner is not just going to drop off the airplane, and land a 4 million peso a month job knocking on doors or checking advertising in the paper. In fact, it is probably easier for a foreigner to do that, than it is for a lot of Chileans. recent studies have shown that foreigners earn more money on average in Chile than Chileans.

But, yea, 3 - 4 million is the pay grade for senior government employees, and why so much of the economy is tied to the public sector work. It pays well. However, for every one of those, there are probably ten thousand government employees that make nothing near that, and never will (well without something like inflation moving the goal post to get them there).

The overall middle class wealth in Chile, I believe is sourced from two places. One, is family. Multi-income families. Mom makes a million a month, dad makes a million a month, the household has a two million a month income, perhaps grandma has a pension, and everyone lives in the same house that is payed for, and so on.

The second is investments, which is just another sort of self-employed business venture, even if it is mostly passive. For example, Chile has made it fairly easy for families to buy a house. Chile has also kept up a tradition of inheritance that keeps that assets in the family. That along with fairly easy access to credit, for better or worse, allows people to leverage relatively small wages to do other investments (e.g. buy a second home, buy parcel). The recent hit that Bachelet did to the real estate market, hit the middle class the hardest, as their property appreciation is one of their biggest tickets that keeps them out of poverty.

The point is, that when you look at who has money and who does not have money in Chile, a vast majority of the money is made in some sort of investment / entrepreneurship sort of activity. It is exactly why I say the political left in Chile is eating it's young, by not recognizing the middle class that exist today is also the business class that the political left spends so much time attacking. Everyone from the maestro, to the small local store, to the farmers, to the small miners, fishermen, to the little old lady that is selling that piece of land she bought 30 years ago; they are all in business for themselves, even if they have other more traditional employment to supplement it.

Funny I came across just the other day, I think it was Richard Branson, that said he would never work for someone else, even if he had to start over, because it was too risky.

An old economics professor I had years ago said, "we can teach people to mitigate the risks in business, but we can't teach them to take risks".

That sort of turns it on it's head, and when you really think about it, that 9-5 "secure job", is really not that secure anyway (and becoming less secure every year). People get fired, companies go bankrupt, businesses down size, companies reorganize, etc. When you work for someone else, your just as exposed to the business risks as they are, and possibly more so. If the boss has a bad year, guess who's going loose their job first?
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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