Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
Forum rules
Moderation of this forum will be very strict compared to other sections of the Chile Forum. “Spamming”, “Trolling”, promotion of “fake news”, “conspiracy theories” or otherwise interfering with the dissemination of accurate information in this dedicated “Crisis Forum” will result in deletion of posts, and repeat offenders will have their accounts banned.
ghibli
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Araucania (again, still)

Post by ghibli » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:30 pm

to fraggle092 Well played. Wonderful graphic. Thanks.

To admin Well that's pretty sad. So it would seem that we end up back at the lousy school system. That's a generational thing, IF it is reformed. Back to the constitution rewrite: Would it help at all? Does it even matter?

Chile does have one standout skill: wine making, so I'm going to hold that thought. Cheers.

User avatar
41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by 41southchile » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:45 am

So here's a glaring example of a failure in the justice system.
Teenage girl was killed by mothers partner, who had already killed before, 2 in one go in 2005, his ex and her child.
I'm sure there will be plenty of angry mobs vowing for justice , and marches too, maybe even a bit of pot banging.
Placards with slogans demanding revenge will be waved around, with a few candles lit and maybe a teddy bear or 10 placed near the house.
Plenty of remembrance and outrage memes on socia media too, some may even go so far as to change their profile photo on fb to something like "justica" or "nunca mas" then.............................

fuck all will actually change with the justice system as always happen.
People will go back to being outraged by something else in a few weeks, expressing their anger/outrage with memes thinking they've done their bit for society.

https://thinis.net/who-is-amber-cornejo ... -in-chile/
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by admin » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:05 am

well, that was only a matter of time, considering there are hundreds if not thousands of people that rob houses can be arrested 50, 100, 150 times and still never spend time in prison.

leading to the protesters being arrested and released on a revolving door.

last week was the guy in temuco that rapped a girl, she committed suicide, he was finally arrested. Then it came out there were dozens of girls that he had rapped going back years.

but, as much as it looks like chile is circling the drain recently, perhaps they will wake-up to just how broken the judicial system is and might get some traction with politicians. unfortunately this congress is all about protecting criminals.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by 41southchile » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:28 am

So you might be in a bit more of a position to comment Admin, when there is a clear failure like the case with Ambar , or the one you mentioned in Pucon, what actually happens?
Is there any type of investigation done by a panel, politicians/academic experts/judges etc? To highlight the failures and provide recommendations? Or is that just an Anglo way of doing things?
Do people/victims families/concerned citizens set up trusts that raise awareness and offer education advice etc?
Admittedly I haven't researched this much, but all I have seen is angry mobs , then never really hear anything else about a lot of issues, surely there must be more concrete action going on?
I know there are things like techo for Chile for homeless etc etc, but are there more grass roots things?

For example are there domestic violence shelters for women and kids in every comuna? There must be? Or is changing your profile picture on social media to a black and white photo enough for most of the population ?
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

ghibli
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by ghibli » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:52 pm

I know there are groups, both local and national, which march for women's rights - including the right to live! but I don't know if there are shelters such as one finds in the us and other countries. I would think that would need co-ordination with police/PDI to provide protection which I don't think exists. As admin says, there have been many many cases of multiple - like dozens - of crimes committed by the same person and nothing happens. The po-pos (to use the shorthand) may pick up a few of them but the judges let them go. I do notice quite a ramp up of drug busts recently - I never knew there were so many drugs/addicts in chile! I don't think those people are released.

There are of course noisy manifestations lasting for a day or more = probably more in the case of Ambar given the truly horrendous nature of the crime - and then they all go home, feeling like they have done their bit - but nothing changes. Possibly with the current increase in domestic violence and violence against young women, there will be a bit more forward thinking and planning, but I have doubts.

As for the "anglo" way of doing things, I don't know if chilenos would be supportive of much of anything a gringo would propose. Admin would know. My own small example, leaving aside the robberies, destruction of my auto, etc., after nearly three years I seem to be making very small progress in one very small area. My town has a leash law. Many people obey it, but a handful of people refuse, despite "warnings" "multas" etc. so day after day month after month year after year, every morning there is trash all over the street and now and then dead mascotas. Some hikers and joggers have taken to carrying a stick in case of dog packs. I have protested protested protested and finally very recently a few of my neighbors have thanked me. A minuscule victory.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by admin » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:36 pm

Well, you got to keep in mind the two opposing political forces, trying to play both sides.

The left in Chile will scream about women's rights, children's rights, etc, etc, while advocating for the release of criminals, taking the teeth out of any laws to arrest anyone, how the pocos are engaging in genicide, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla, year after year, for more bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla,

By the way, it was Bachelet's administration that decided to let the murder out of prison, because we would not want to punish the poor, poor criminals, because they are poor, and mommy did not love them, bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla.

It was the Bachelet administration that filled the courts full of extreme left wing judges, implemented the laws to make it nearly impossible to hold anyone, for anything, no matter how big a threat they are, bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla.

I think we should call the office of U.N. Human rights and ask them to look in to this. :roll:
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

ghibli
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by ghibli » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:10 pm

Bachelet was a huge disappointment ! and left behind many problems. I'm still surprised at how very bad she was after an apparently fairly good first term. Of course, one can say the same about Pinera - although he seems more of a blank. He doesn't seem to cause problems so much as ignore them.

As for Bachelet in the "human rights" gig - she's like the cat Macavity - she isn't there. How did she get to be so bad?

User avatar
41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by 41southchile » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:48 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:36 pm
Well, you got to keep in mind the two opposing political forces, trying to play both sides.

The left in Chile will scream about women's rights, children's rights, etc, etc, while advocating for the release of criminals, taking the teeth out of any laws to arrest anyone, how the pocos are engaging in genicide, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla, year after year, for more bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla,

By the way, it was Bachelet's administration that decided to let the murder out of prison, because we would not want to punish the poor, poor criminals, because they are poor, and mommy did not love them, bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla.

It was the Bachelet administration that filled the courts full of extreme left wing judges, implemented the laws to make it nearly impossible to hold anyone, for anything, no matter how big a threat they are, bla, bla, bla, bla,bla, bla, bla, bla.

I think we should call the office of U.N. Human rights and ask them to look in to this. :roll:
I kind of get the left argument in some ways, that yeah a lot of criminals are victims in the sense they may have been bought up in dysfunctional homes, BUT it's a pretty simple friggin argument and it's a disingenuous solution to let them out of jail (early and without any wrap around support services in the community, or follow up monitoring) it's as if the left sets them up for failure again. 🤔
In fact I would be tempted to say to the criminals, what's done is done, sorry you drew the short straw in life, and sorry you went down that track but you ain't coming out of jail, you cant chage events in the past, rehabilitation is not always possible.
Maybe the friggin left, judges/politicians etc should actually worry about the future generations, i.e the kids now. But it seems they fuck that up too, look at Sename.
I dont really know to be honest, while there is so much ideology/tribalism/divisions nothing's gonna change.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22321
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by admin » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:58 pm

well, media is all on fire today about what went wrong with case, the judicial system, etc.

so far it all looks like more political bullshit song and dance they do in hopes it just goes away, but let's see.

Their big innovation is they are going to add more judges. No one is really looking at the real problem of the judicial system.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by 41southchile » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:55 pm

ghibli wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:52 pm
I know there are groups, both local and national, which march for women's rights - including the right to live! but I don't know if there are shelters such as one finds in the us and other countries. I would think that would need co-ordination with police/PDI to provide protection which I don't think exists. As admin says, there have been many many cases of multiple - like dozens - of crimes committed by the same person and nothing happens. The po-pos (to use the shorthand) may pick up a few of them but the judges let them go. I do notice quite a ramp up of drug busts recently - I never knew there were so many drugs/addicts in chile! I don't think those people are released.

There are of course noisy manifestations lasting for a day or more = probably more in the case of Ambar given the truly horrendous nature of the crime - and then they all go home, feeling like they have done their bit - but nothing changes. Possibly with the current increase in domestic violence and violence against young women, there will be a bit more forward thinking and planning, but I have doubts.

As for the "anglo" way of doing things, I don't know if chilenos would be supportive of much of anything a gringo would propose. Admin would know. My own small example, leaving aside the robberies, destruction of my auto, etc., after nearly three years I seem to be making very small progress in one very small area. My town has a leash law. Many people obey it, but a handful of people refuse, despite "warnings" "multas" etc. so day after day month after month year after year, every morning there is trash all over the street and now and then dead mascotas. Some hikers and joggers have taken to carrying a stick in case of dog packs. I have protested protested protested and finally very recently a few of my neighbors have thanked me. A minuscule victory.
Setting up a commission to evaluate judges decisions , as below article says 🤔. Sounds very "anglo", to me, yeah you right though Chileans are blinded by their emotions and ignorance sometimes and wouldnt acknowledge good ideas if they slapped them in the face .

Just because its gringo, or wherever in the world it comes from, it doesnt mean it wouldn't work here, why so many exclude themselves and rule out experiences and ideas from other countries is something I've always found frustrating with some Chileans.
Normally the loud mouth ignorant ones who associate gringo ideas with the Chicago Boys and have chips on their shoulders are the loudest, there are others who are more progressive and open minded to new ideas.

Lots of countries go through the same shit, a lot of ideas could be implemented here, shit Chile have imported wholesale all the commercial bs anyway and swallowed that, why not some of the social and community aspects?

Anyway MB and her judges really screwed up on this case in particular, I'm sure theres hundreds others. This guy that killed Ambar was sentenced to 27 years in 2005 and served just 11, for double homicide, if that's not blood on their hands , I'm not sure what is.
How anyone can take anything MB says seriously from here on in is beyond me.

Hopefully Ambars death wasn't totally in vain, if it can restore some sense to the judicial system, that's something.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... ional.html
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

User avatar
nwdiver
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 3111
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC and Chile where ever it's Summer
Contact:

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by nwdiver » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:46 pm

Everyone should know right from wrong, that should never be a left vs. right thing.....
It's all about the wine.

ghibli
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:18 pm

Re: Araucania (again, still) (and justice system failures)

Post by ghibli » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:07 pm

to 41southchile . Yes. The chicago boy bellicosity is definitely a pain. There is also an odd kind of machismo, a with a kind of passive aggressive quality. In talks with some chileno friends, especially chilenas, it has been remarked that many chilenos have a kind of inferiority complex which leads them to go all balky and mulish now and then. This is very sad - there are many great things about chile...
to nwdiver - Of course. With that and do under others as you would have then do to you the world could go far to the good. So, in fairness, I must mention an article in today's BioBio which states that Bachelet did not pardon the assassin of Ambar. It happened during Pinera's term.There is a long explanation of the legalese. Bachelet may have appointed judges who might have given pardon, but Pinera did there deed.

Post Reply