The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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dmwbmw2
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by dmwbmw2 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:57 am

So I assume if I do take some out it would be added to my income and i would pay tax at the last dollar rate?

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:07 am

so here is a fairly good look at what the AFP with drawl means and where the money is at.

https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nac ... -afp.shtml

In short it will screw over everyone, and the entire economy if it is done wrong.
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:13 am

oddly, if you have a clue about investing, and don't go spend the money on a big screen TV, it might setup a sort of perfect short sale on the market.

Take the money out.

wait for the market to free fall.

buy back in (through private brokerage, not the AFP) and hopefully skip the dogs (e.g. latam).

The only problem is the idiots running the AFPs I am sure are going to pick the absolute worse time to sell.
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tiagoabner
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by tiagoabner » Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:22 am

admin wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:13 am
The only problem is the idiots running the AFPs I am sure are going to pick the absolute worse time to sell.
Exactly. They have 10 days to process the withdrawal, which means you have no control over when the funds will be sold. Also, imagine the effect on fund prices for - say - 500,000 people selling their funds at once. It won't be pretty. The actual cash value that will be withdrawn after accounting for that will be much less than the current value of your investment.

Piñera is often bashed for being too reactive, but Briones was 100% right in that this is a very, very bad idea.
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:56 pm

Here's a mail I received this am from AFP Cuprum.

This project is merely the "hole in the dyke" for the No+AFP movement.
Ayer 8 de julio, la Cámara de Diputados aprobó, en general, un proyecto de ley que permitiría a los afiliados el retiro de un 10% de los fondos de la cuenta de ahorro obligatorio con un tope de UF150.

Esta medida representa un riesgo para el monto de las futuras pensiones.

Dicho proyecto debe pasar aún por varias etapas antes de llegar a ser ley, incluyendo una nueva revisión, discusión y votación en la Comisión de Constitución, en la Cámara de Diputados y posteriormente en el Senado.

Somos conscientes que el país atraviesa por una situación excepcional que requiere medidas extraordinarias para aliviar las dificultades que enfrentan muchas personas y familias. Pero es clave que estas medidas no signifiquen que deban utilizar sus propios ahorros destinados para la pensión.

Este tipo de iniciativa reduce el ahorro y apunta en contra del objetivo de mejorar las pensiones. Retirar el máximo que permite el proyecto, equivaldría a eliminar, en promedio, más de 4 años de ahorro previsional de las cuentas de capitalización.

Por nuestra parte, seguiremos defendiendo su mejor interés y colaborando con ideas y acciones que contribuyan a tener un mejor sistema de seguridad social para Chile.

Le agradezco una vez más su confianza y buena recepción.

Saluda atentamente,
Martín Mujica
Gerente General
AFP Cuprum
Pan para hoy y hambre para mañana.
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

Après moi, le déluge

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:04 pm

Puerto de San Antonio, cargo transfers down 4.4% for the first semester vs. same period 2019.

https://www.soychile.cl/San-Antonio/Eco ... minal.aspx
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:48 pm

unemployment numbers. 11.5%

https://www.df.cl/noticias/economia-y-p ... 90343.html

youth, 25%
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by tiagoabner » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:56 pm
Here's a mail I received this am from AFP Cuprum.
It seems that AFP Cuprum wasn't the only one that sent an email to it's clients. AFP Habitat sent a much more critic one and it seems that they'll be investigated for it. Whatever that means.

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/site/ ... 93118.html

On a completely unconnected note, the Chilean stock market had the worst performance among all others yesterday, and the IPSA index fell a lot. Who would've guessed that the market wouldn't like a project that would be fucking up the retirement system?

Let me answer that: everyone who had the capacity of thinking about the future. Fucking Chilean populists.
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:36 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:16 am
fraggle092 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:56 pm
Here's a mail I received this am from AFP Cuprum.
It seems that AFP Cuprum wasn't the only one that sent an email to it's clients. AFP Habitat sent a much more critic one and it seems that they'll be investigated for it. Whatever that means.

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/site/ ... 93118.html

On a completely unconnected note, the Chilean stock market had the worst performance among all others yesterday, and the IPSA index fell a lot. Who would've guessed that the market wouldn't like a project that would be fucking up the retirement system?

Let me answer that: everyone who had the capacity of thinking about the future. Fucking Chilean populists.
yep.

long-term planning and individual self-discipline not a strong point of the culture.

I already hear people on the local radio joking about throwing a party when they get the money.

although, I just heard an AFP talking head on TV say something like, "1 million pesos for someone that is 30 years old, when you reach retirment at 60 years that is 3 million pesos".

and my first reaction was, 'that is all the fucking return on my money you are getting me over 30 years'?

Considering my worse year return is 15% on a bad, bad year in my investment portfolio I manage myself, making all sorts of mistakes, not really paying attention, that is an impressive level of investment incompetence / theft.

at which point, taking the money out and throwing a party does not sound like a bad idea, considering most people will otherwise be dead before they ever collect a pension check.

In other words, a monkey with dart board (me), could do better.
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by tiagoabner » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:04 pm

Five AFPs are being sanctioned after sending notices to their clients informing them that withdrawing the funds is a terrible idea:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/site/ ... 92123.html
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:22 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:04 pm
Five AFPs are being sanctioned after sending notices to their clients informing them that withdrawing the funds is a terrible idea:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/site/ ... 92123.html
yea, of all things wrong with the AFP that is just strange.

encouraging people to save for their retirement is sort of one of the few things that is in their job description.
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by tiagoabner » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:37 pm

This is an interesting read on the AFP project:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/socie ... 81809.html

Those who have less in retirement savings will be severely screwed over, as they will set back their retirement savings. The rich, and those who have over 1500 UF saved, won't be screwed up nearly as much, as they will still have money left over earning them interest. The worst part is that those that are responsible and don't take any money out will be screwed up more than all others.

That doesn't even touch on the USD $ 18 billion cost for the project, as opposed to the $12 billion for the economic rescue package that was negotiated between the government and the opposition.

This AFP withdrawal project is purely populistic and I feel really sad that it has this much popular support. I guess it speaks wonders of Piñera's government and how incapable they are of running propaganda. If they blasted out propaganda about their program, this one wouldn't be getting this much support.
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