The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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PaltaConPollo
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by PaltaConPollo » Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:30 pm

As I recall from last year, March was when it was all starting to kick off again in Santiago after a couple of months of relative calm, until COVID stopped the mayhem dead in its tracks. The problem the government has now is that they have very little justification to keep the restrictions going now the vaccination program is in full swing, Santiago is going to be a complete warzone for the next couple of months at least as all the flaites and commies unleash all the pent-up anger they've been brewing for the past year or so, I don't envy anyone in the capital right now.

olafboswijk
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by olafboswijk » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:18 am

I've always wondered: why is everyone that is opposed to this or any other neoliberal government a 'commie' and a 'flaite'?
would appreciate a serious, respectful and hopefully non cynical response.

alextrombone
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by alextrombone » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:25 am

olafboswijk wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:18 am
I've always wondered: why is everyone that is opposed to this or any other neoliberal government a 'commie' and a 'flaite'?
would appreciate a serious, respectful and hopefully non cynical response.
Basically because people are too lazy to engage in any meaningful discourse so they just resort to classist name calling.

Here you can get labelled a “communist” just by saying you think gay people should get married.

PaltaConPollo
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by PaltaConPollo » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:33 pm

olafboswijk wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:18 am
I've always wondered: why is everyone that is opposed to this or any other neoliberal government a 'commie' and a 'flaite'?
would appreciate a serious, respectful and hopefully non cynical response.
I lived in central Santiago during the 2019 unrest, and all I have to say is that, after witnessing "peaceful protesters" trying to set fire to the petrol station on my street, throwing petrol bombs at passing police trucks, looting my neighbourhood's stores causing the remaining businesses to post notices begging not to be attacked, and seeing my local church burned to the ground, I really have zero sympathy left for these people. And I have very little time for those that romanticize these criminals as "brave peaceful protesters standing up to the fascist neoliberals", either.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:45 pm

PaltaConPollo wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:33 pm
olafboswijk wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:18 am
I've always wondered: why is everyone that is opposed to this or any other neoliberal government a 'commie' and a 'flaite'?
would appreciate a serious, respectful and hopefully non cynical response.
I lived in central Santiago during the 2019 unrest, and all I have to say is that, after witnessing "peaceful protesters" trying to set fire to the petrol station on my street, throwing petrol bombs at passing police trucks, looting my neighbourhood's stores causing the remaining businesses to post notices begging not to be attacked, and seeing my local church burned to the ground, I really have zero sympathy left for these people. And I have very little time for those that romanticize these criminals as "brave peaceful protesters standing up to the fascist neoliberals", either.
Two thumbs up. Not fun when you are about to lose the last supermarket in your area and places to bank at and cannot get from point A to B because of a tarmac destroying fiery blockade or violent protest. The antifa playbook is indeed international and is alive and well in Chile not to mention I have had direct experiences with these Chile commies who sing the commie anthem at the breakfast table every morning and act like decades of socialist and communist revolution failures never happened. Of course, these coddled, modern raised teens and 20 to 30 somethings use their tech capitalistic tools to further their ends without a clue.
Que será, será.

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41southchile
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by 41southchile » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:48 pm

PaltaConPollo wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:33 pm
olafboswijk wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:18 am
I've always wondered: why is everyone that is opposed to this or any other neoliberal government a 'commie' and a 'flaite'?
would appreciate a serious, respectful and hopefully non cynical response.
I lived in central Santiago during the 2019 unrest, and all I have to say is that, after witnessing "peaceful protesters" trying to set fire to the petrol station on my street, throwing petrol bombs at passing police trucks, looting my neighbourhood's stores causing the remaining businesses to post notices begging not to be attacked, and seeing my local church burned to the ground, I really have zero sympathy left for these people. And I have very little time for those that romanticize these criminals as "brave peaceful protesters standing up to the fascist neoliberals", either.
Well said, screw the commies and screw the flaites.
Everyday Chileans are sick of their bs.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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41southchile
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by 41southchile » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:54 pm

Im still sticking to my prediction that Chile and many other countries in Latin America will be under right wing military control this decade
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

Jamers41
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Jamers41 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:35 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:54 pm
Screen Shot 2021-02-16 at 12.14.44 AM.jpg
Um, pardon me for disagreeing but last year at this time there was another, really, really similar meme (or just calendar image essentially) going around with all of the supposed marches & protests & promised mayhem for the month and most of it either did not happen at all or just wasn't a very big deal......and not just because of Covid. Restrictions didn't really start until around March 17th or so and I don't remember anything that took place before that date being especially destructive either. The most memorable thing at that time was the Sunday March 8th Women's march and how the president of the College of Physicians was there to encourage everyone to gather and march and then hypocritically said the gov't wasn't doing enough to combat the pandemic just a few weeks later.

That being said, there have been "protests" and vandalism EVERY Friday for months now in specific areas downtown (not all over other communas & parts of Chile like 2019) and everyone just kind of expects it to happen if it's Friday and it's that specific part of downtown. When the story is covered on social media, however, like 8 out of every 10 comments are negative towards the so-called protesters, few take them seriously anymore in terms of expressing legitimate grievances. This has been happening for MONTHS now, every Friday afternoon since probably August or September when the "desconfinamiento" first had legs.

Also keep in mind that there is an election coming soon in April, and there will be a lot of candidates, unlike the binary Approve/Reject referendum last October, and I participated in the October referendum and don't remember that month being much like October 2019 (which was definitely insane).

Jamers41
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Jamers41 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:01 am


Donnybrook2
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Donnybrook2 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:05 am

There are genuine grievances and a lot of quite well-balanced people protested in 2019. These often ended with the useless destruction which affected the lives of local shops and residents in a terrible, sometimes life-changing way. When I asked some of those peaceful protestors whether they felt responsible for the aftermath of their protests, they usually said, basically, that it wasn't their problem or responsibility as they had not participated. This struck me as somewhat ingenuous as, presumably, they marched to state their message and draw attention to the genuine grievances. Hopefully, they are trying to convince people other. than themselves. Not much point otherwise as a million people marching is still a minute proportion of the total population. But I think that what has stayed in a lot of people's minds is the interruption and destruction and any message they wanted to send was lost.

On a personal level, two large, annual charity events I usually support had to be cancelled in November 2019 due to concerns about protests in the area. The ticket money had to be returned (although many left it where it was) and the income for those charities was hugely diminished. So when I think of the protests this is what I remember. I think the harm done to so many people in the 2019 protests was such that it is not surprising that people were left with nothing but negative feelings about them.

Britkid
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Britkid » Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:29 pm

I think the majority of Chileans supported the protests at the time (in fact this is almost beyond dispute) and likely still would in retrospect. However, if you asked them whether they supported protests starting up again I think response would be more mixed now.

But...the protests were started by school children (October 2019), died down when the schools broke up (December 2019), started up again a bit (in March 2020) when the schools started, and, outside of Plaza Italia, have been largely nonexistent since they shut down the schools. So we need to keep an eye on the schools starting up soon, the kids have been bottled up at home with their teen hormones. Until the kids are back in schools and the pandemic is over, we don´t really know for certain where we stand.

I do think the protests did more harm than good so far, but the better judge will be the long term view. If we have better and more universal medical care and much larger pensions 10-20 years from now, for example, that may be to some extent be the legacy of these protests.

I still believe that in October 2019 Chile became a more left-wing country, in the space of a month. It is now most likely simply a case of waiting for the 2021 electoral cycle to play out and wait until we end up with a more left-wing government.

That being said, there is a problem with that theory is that there is no popular, unifying left wing Presidential candidate. So a centrist or right candidate may yet win simply because the left doesn´t have a well known candidate. There is also the risk that a populist, whether left or right or centrist or of no discernibe ideology, steps into the vacuum. Another problem with my theory that Chile will shift politically to the left is that people are unwilling to acknowledge that they are left wing and vote, they consider themselves more anti elites and politicians than left.

Either way, you can forget about the communists taking over. They simply can´t command a majority in Chile. I don´t believe the people would stand for a military dictatorship either. In the mad days of October 2019 you couldn´t rule anything out, but now the people of Chile are a little more measured coming out of the experience.

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41southchile
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by 41southchile » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:02 pm

Britkid wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:29 pm
I think the majority of Chileans supported the protests at the time (in fact this is almost beyond dispute) and likely still would in retrospect. However, if you asked them whether they supported protests starting up again I think response would be more mixed now.

But...the protests were started by school children (October 2019), died down when the schools broke up (December 2019), started up again a bit (in March 2020) when the schools started, and, outside of Plaza Italia, have been largely nonexistent since they shut down the schools. So we need to keep an eye on the schools starting up soon, the kids have been bottled up at home with their teen hormones. Until the kids are back in schools and the pandemic is over, we don´t really know for certain where we stand.

I do think the protests did more harm than good so far, but the better judge will be the long term view. If we have better and more universal medical care and much larger pensions 10-20 years from now, for example, that may be to some extent be the legacy of these protests.

I still believe that in October 2019 Chile became a more left-wing country, in the space of a month. It is now most likely simply a case of waiting for the 2021 electoral cycle to play out and wait until we end up with a more left-wing government.

That being said, there is a problem with that theory is that there is no popular, unifying left wing Presidential candidate. So a centrist or right candidate may yet win simply because the left doesn´t have a well known candidate. There is also the risk that a populist, whether left or right or centrist or of no discernibe ideology, steps into the vacuum. Another problem with my theory that Chile will shift politically to the left is that people are unwilling to acknowledge that they are left wing and vote, they consider themselves more anti elites and politicians than left.

Either way, you can forget about the communists taking over. They simply can´t command a majority in Chile. I don´t believe the people would stand for a military dictatorship either. In the mad days of October 2019 you couldn´t rule anything out, but now the people of Chile are a little more measured coming out of the experience.
Good points.
I personally think a lot of misguided left wing bs will continue but you are right that it may be contained enough. However if things fo south again, and the left start up their campaign, then the average citizens (and the elite) will look for a strong man to to sort out the crap, be they military or civilillian.

If you destroy enough peoples lively hoods and crime becomes too rampant, not to mention the migrant crisis from the rest of the continent, people will get over their aversion to military rule if they feel threatened.

Some of Pinochets biggest supporters were the poor and working classes because he cracked down on criminals.
So watch this space I guess.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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