The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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41southchile
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by 41southchile » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:17 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:53 pm
We really should do a political dictionary of common phrases the left use in chile to fool people in to thinking they are moderate left.

fondo solidario = nationalization (not expropriation, as that requires paying for what you take).

el pubelo = the morons that do not know we are ripping them off

Frente Amplio = young communist party

There are a lot more out there. I will keep an eye out for more buzz terms the left is using these days to paper over what they are really doing.
I think it's pretty clear now the way this is all heading
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tiagoabner
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by tiagoabner » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 pm

Over 3 million AFP withdrawal requests in the first day:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/econo ... 92027.html
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Britkid » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:26 pm

It´s funny how one thing catches everyone´s attention, and that´s all they can talk about.

Why is this 10% pension thing dominating everything from the TV news cycle to everyone´s facebook food to chit chat between friends. Like it´s suddenly the only thing that matters. Granted, it´s a big deal for some people that are really struggling.

But it´s a minor detail next to the underlying crisis of COVID, climate change, still unresolved social issues dating back to the movement of 2019, and many other things. In my view the amount of time being dedicated to this issue is like ten times too high.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Britkid » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:48 pm

I noticed in recent months that the TV channels became even more obsessed with crime than usual, and constantly show reports of all sorts of crime to try and give the impression that there is a crime wave. Of course, in a country of millions of people, there is bound to be all sorts of incidents each day. I think it wrongly gives the impression than we are limited in a particularly crime-infested country, which I´m not convinced is the case.

At the same time, the TV is basically ignoring the unresolved questions from the protests in October and November of last year.

Now, this could be a deliberate strategy. It could be that the owners of these channels sit down over cigars and evil laughs and all agree to focus on crime and ignore underlying social problems to preserve the status quo of privilege and wealth and low taxation for a minority by brainwashing everyone into a fear of crime. Or it could be entirely subconscious. That the TV presenters and editors tend to come more from middle class than working class backgrounds, and their unconscious bias makes them focus more on certain things. Or, it could be somewhere in between.

But either way, the whole movement for social change has been forgotten about and discarded by the mainstream media. I don´t think it´s going to work. As they say, Chile woke up in October 2019. But, even though Chile woke up in October, it does seem to be having a long nap at the moment. It´s not just the TV, either. My facebook feed, which was at the end of 2019, filled with overzealous left wing opinion, no longer is even slightly, and no-one I know talks about the issues at all any more.

Granted, Chileans seem to be too responsible to protest in the pandemic (unlike some other countries), but people are not even talking about the issues, or planning when to get back to the streets. Is the elite going to get away with the small amount of changes they made? Maybe for a while. Probably not forever. I think Chile won´t be a truly stable country again until it has increased taxes on the middle and upper class and reduced inequality.

Are we going to get big protests starting up again - perhaps in March? Maybe. Although it looks less likely than a few months ago. There isn´t as much passion for it throughout a large section of the working class as before.

One thing is clear. As soon as people stopped fighting the military and burning things and protesting, the government mostly dropped the issue. They´ve sent a clear and consistent message that only disruption gets results.

I think if there are few or no protests by March 2021, then we get close enough to the next election cycle that the people may resolve to fix their problems through democracy.

Either way, I think a second wave of protests has to come. It could be in 2021 or it could be later, but these issues are still there, waiting for a leader, or a spark, at the right moment.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:57 pm

Tonight may be more active.
Screen Shot 2020-07-31 at 6.55.09 PM.jpg
There are two ways to be fooled.

One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by PXYC » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 pm
Over 3 million AFP withdrawal requests in the first day:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/econo ... 92027.html
3 million in the first day? :shock:
If this is just the 1st day, let's give it a week..
...
Is anyone here taking this opportunity for getting their money out? I really don't know what to do - while I don't need the money, I also don't know if as a foreigner I should keep it in the AFP.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am

PXYC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 pm
Over 3 million AFP withdrawal requests in the first day:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/econo ... 92027.html
3 million in the first day? :shock:
If this is just the 1st day, let's give it a week..
...
Is anyone here taking this opportunity for getting their money out? I really don't know what to do - while I don't need the money, I also don't know if as a foreigner I should keep it in the AFP.
think last I seen it was 5 million now.
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tiagoabner
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by tiagoabner » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:10 am

admin wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am
PXYC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 pm
Over 3 million AFP withdrawal requests in the first day:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/econo ... 92027.html
3 million in the first day? :shock:
If this is just the 1st day, let's give it a week..
...
Is anyone here taking this opportunity for getting their money out? I really don't know what to do - while I don't need the money, I also don't know if as a foreigner I should keep it in the AFP.
think last I seen it was 5 million now.
https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/eco ... -afp.shtml

5.5 Million, or one out of two people in Chile who had funds on the AFP system. Given that I have one year to withdraw funds, I'm keeping an eye on how things are going to change moving forward. I'm also running my numbers to see if I'm just going to invest then elsewhere or if I'm going to shove the money at an APV account for the tax break.
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:13 am

as for the protests and the media, the reporters in Chile tend to be extremely left wing and even more extremely lazy.

friend of mine works in the legal department of one of the big grocery store chains. There was a resurgence in protests and looting, related to the AFP thing a lityle while back.

he gets a call in the middle of the night from a reporter asking for comment on the three super markets that were burning. He was like 'no comment, until I check on what is happening'.

he calls up the managers, and has them go out to see what is going on.

guess what?

no fires. no looting. he calls the reporter back. Tells them there are no fires or looting and everything is normal.

The fucking reporters however goes ahead and runs old photos from october on the front page of the paper the next day claiming three supermarkets were burned.

The news paper refuses to write a retraction or even a correction.

Guess who is now being sued by one of the largest companies in the country now?
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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by admin » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:18 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:10 am
admin wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am
PXYC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 pm
Over 3 million AFP withdrawal requests in the first day:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/econo ... 92027.html
3 million in the first day? :shock:
If this is just the 1st day, let's give it a week..
...
Is anyone here taking this opportunity for getting their money out? I really don't know what to do - while I don't need the money, I also don't know if as a foreigner I should keep it in the AFP.
think last I seen it was 5 million now.
https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/eco ... -afp.shtml

5.5 Million, or one out of two people in Chile who had funds on the AFP system. Given that I have one year to withdraw funds, I'm keeping an eye on how things are going to change moving forward. I'm also running my numbers to see if I'm just going to invest then elsewhere or if I'm going to shove the money at an APV account for the tax break.
I really don't like the way the APV accounts are setup, and given the corrupt communist Congress has a taste for nationalization blood right now, I would not put it under them to try and go after those accounts too.

I will manage my own money thank you, and find a tax shelter later to off-set any taxes.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by Jamers41 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:04 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:18 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:10 am
admin wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:04 am
PXYC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:14 pm
Over 3 million AFP withdrawal requests in the first day:

https://m.cooperativa.cl/noticias/econo ... 92027.html
3 million in the first day? :shock:
If this is just the 1st day, let's give it a week..
...
Is anyone here taking this opportunity for getting their money out? I really don't know what to do - while I don't need the money, I also don't know if as a foreigner I should keep it in the AFP.
think last I seen it was 5 million now.
https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/eco ... -afp.shtml

5.5 Million, or one out of two people in Chile who had funds on the AFP system. Given that I have one year to withdraw funds, I'm keeping an eye on how things are going to change moving forward. I'm also running my numbers to see if I'm just going to invest then elsewhere or if I'm going to shove the money at an APV account for the tax break.
I really don't like the way the APV accounts are setup, and given the corrupt communist Congress has a taste for nationalization blood right now, I would not put it under them to try and go after those accounts too.

I will manage my own money thank you, and find a tax shelter later to off-set any taxes.
I still insist that Congress does not have the votes for such a thing right now........personally I know plenty of Chileans in favor of withdrawing their 10% now who also say "Screw that" when asked about the idea of pension nationalization, so I doubt public sentiment is there either..........all bets are off after next year's elections though.

Also I don't agree with the idea that the issues from 2019 have gone away or that anyone is forgetting about them, at the moment the referendum for the constitution is still on schedule for this October, and I have seen comments today on social media for that too.

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Re: The Chile Economy, Social Crisis and Virus Impact

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:02 pm

Replying, as sorta promised, to some of the issues raised in this post:
I have tried to address the broader issues: Why for instance is this free-for-all just happening now? The Left have had 20-odd years of government to fix the Pensions system, but did nothing. During Bachelet's last term, she commissioned two pensions system enquiries, but simply shelved their recommendations.
Jamers41 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:07 am
You seem to be reading a bit too much into the individual 10% project in terms of the current government's power (or lack thereof). First of all, it was not in violation of the current Constitution because it was actually a constitutional reform bill, not just a regular law.
That's highly debatable. Article 61 of the constitution states that modifying Social Security provisions is a presidential prerogative. The resquicio of presenting it as a Constitutional Reform is irrelevant.
What happened was that Piñera knuckled under and approved this law for fear of the consequences if he didn't.
Jamers41 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:07 am
.. Ultimately the congressional vote was more or less a reflection of the popular will, when multiple surveys indicated that 75% or 80% of the country supported the idea, there is nothing wrong with the congress voting likewise, even if you or I consider the idea to be a bad one, when something has such overwhelming support, it should pass, because that's what democracy is....
Sorry, that isn't democracy. It's "mob rule". Democratic governments exist to moderate society's demands, to accommodate them within the framework of fairness and feasibility. At least that's how things used to work until everyone became an expert on everything.

Everyone will go for the money, regardless of their "principles" or of the long-term consequences. That's why its an irresponsible initiative, and opens the door for more of the same. The Majority (the only one that counts in a democracy) who voted for Piñera had no intention of destroying the pensions system before the demagogues put that idea into their heads.

Its another attack on the present system by a determined minority, crusading under the banners of Inequality and Social Justice, (pretty rich coming from them) who are simply using these themes as weapons in their attempt to gain power by foul rather than fair means. They have been very effective at blowing smoke up the collective asses though, both here and abroad.

The underlying attack in the Ideas War is directed against the current Constitution which embodies the principle of Subsidiarity. There is nothing particularly uniquely Chilean about the subsidiarity principle: From that wikipedia article:
...Subsidiarity is also a general principle of European Union law. In the United States of
America, the principle of States' Rights is enshrined in the constitution...
The Subsidiarity (as opposed to Solidarity) principle was embodied in the 1980 constitution in response to the historically poor management of Chilean state enterprises, and it helped usher in the period of economic growth that had already come to an end even before the current spate of troubles that started last October.

Jaime Guzmán was the inspiration in defining that constitution, whose principles counter the collectivist ambitions of Marxism, which ultimately seeks complete state control. (Unconstitutional calls to nationalize strategic activities have been on the upturn since Bachelet's government)
Guzmán was assassinated by extreme left-wing elements because of his dangerous ideas. Dangerous to them, that is. Thats why autodonante Giorgio Jackson was caught gloating with that "Dead Guzmán" T-Shirt.

This isn't ancient history; the Communists haven't changed their ideology since the 1930s.

IMHO this attack on the ideas embodied in the current constitution is crucial to the success of the left wing's attempted power grab. But the aforementioned smoke-blowing exercise is successfully camouflaging their intentions.
Jamers41 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:07 am
It has now become even more clear that the current pension system needs reform, and the opposition to Piñera is not all united about how to do that, as they are usually not all united about many other issues (like I have noted before). Hopefully some sort of change happens before Piñera leaves office, because it would probably be better than what pension reform could look like after next year's elections. For my part, I only voted in the first round of elections last time here, that will not happen again.
This post is already too long , so I removed my response to those comments. The pensions issue is just a sideshow imho. Chileans are collectively kicking that dog down the road,just as Bachelet did, where it will turn on them and bite them in the ass sometime in the future.
But pensions will be the least of their problems if this clique of power-grabbers get their way.

For anyone who is interested in more information on this topic, Tomas Bradanovic has several recommendable posts.
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