Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:21 pm

well, well, in spite of the "every criminal just needs a pat on the head crowd", Congress is introducing some laws quietly to make the penalties harder for certain things.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... eguro.html

Did Congress members personally get spooked by recent events?

Good.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:54 pm

in other news, john cobin, the american that shot at the unarmed protesters, tried to appeal his 90 day detention while the investigation was conducted, and was ruled a threat to the community.

guess he will have to sit this one out.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:56 pm

FYI, from a legal tactic and strategy point of view, not a good sign that this routine appeal made the national news.

higher the profile of the case, and it does not get much higher, the less likely a prosecutor will want to be seen cutting any type of deal.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by mem » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:46 pm

This may be common knowledge to some of you already, but this is the second time I have been gobsmacked by something related to the protests..first was the yellow vests that are taken to mean "anti-protests".
This time it was understanding what "No mas AFP" actually means...up until today I thought they wanted a better pension system. Now I have come to learn it means people want ALL THEIR AFP contributions paid out to them now. Refunded in a lump sum or similar
For people that have worked for years paying AFP that could be a pretty hefty chunk of pesos.

Of course we all know that money is either tied up or already spent. But I can see how the average person decades away from retirement would think this was a great idea...big payday now inspite of it being completely unrealistic when most social security systems are essentially benevolent ponzi structures that are multi-generational.
Please let me know if there is more to this that I am missing or overlooking

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Re: General, Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by El Ping » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:30 pm

Britkid wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Well my theory is you place a high tax on the person with two yachts (whether income tax or wealth tax) and then use that tax to pay for free health care for all - or get closer to that point. The person with two yachts then has to sell one of them.
Speaking as someone who owns a yacht in Chile... OK she is in Ecuador at present but will be back in Chile in the New Year..

Chileans with large yachts will be paying marina fees... a large part of which goes to paying office staff, security staff, and marineros ... I think Club Nautico de Reloncavi in Pto Montt has somewhere in the order of 20 full time staff.
They will also be employing a manager to look after their boat while they are beavering away in Santiago. They will also be employing a cleaner, someone to look after the technical side of things, and - when the owner decides to go sailing - a licenced skipper.

Then of course there is maintenance... mine is only a smallish boat by Chilean standards but in 2018 I brought into the country somewhere on the high side of $8 million pesos in foreign currency for maintenance. That was beside the cost of keeping her in a marina and my not insubstantial contribution to the Carmenere and Pisco industries.......

But hey, lets screw the rich anyway...

How much money do you think the government would raise if they put a 100% tax on all Chilean flag yachts?

I'll tell you.... not very much at all in the grand scheme of things....

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by El Ping » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:33 pm

Just did a rough calc based on approx number of yachts in country .... say about $100 million US.... divide that by population ... comes to about $5 US a head.... not going to buy a lot of healthcare with that...

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by gregf » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:31 am

Since Pinochet, has there been anything close to this happen before?

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by El Ping » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:28 am

https://www.france24.com/en/20191120-ch ... protesters

They should not having been using it in the first place..............

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:17 am

mem wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:46 pm
This may be common knowledge to some of you already, but this is the second time I have been gobsmacked by something related to the protests..first was the yellow vests that are taken to mean "anti-protests".
This time it was understanding what "No mas AFP" actually means...up until today I thought they wanted a better pension system. Now I have come to learn it means people want ALL THEIR AFP contributions paid out to them now. Refunded in a lump sum or similar
For people that have worked for years paying AFP that could be a pretty hefty chunk of pesos.

Of course we all know that money is either tied up or already spent. But I can see how the average person decades away from retirement would think this was a great idea...big payday now inspite of it being completely unrealistic when most social security systems are essentially benevolent ponzi structures that are multi-generational.
Please let me know if there is more to this that I am missing or overlooking
yea there are a bunch of actions in the courts by various people to try and get their money released.

peru just did it, and everyone went out and spent the money. now no one has a pension.

so there is the people want the state to provide a pension. people who want their money back, and the state to provide a pension. other people who want the state to expropriate everyone else's pension to share. none of them are viable.

personally I don't want the government anywhere near my pension. I am against the AFP, simply because they suck at investing it. back In like 2015 or 2016 I think it was, a monkey with dart board could have made 20% in the market, any market, but the afps were at most making like 2% or 3%. some lost money. how the hell do you do that?
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:26 am

admin wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:17 am
mem wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:46 pm
This may be common knowledge to some of you already, but this is the second time I have been gobsmacked by something related to the protests..first was the yellow vests that are taken to mean "anti-protests".
This time it was understanding what "No mas AFP" actually means...up until today I thought they wanted a better pension system. Now I have come to learn it means people want ALL THEIR AFP contributions paid out to them now. Refunded in a lump sum or similar
For people that have worked for years paying AFP that could be a pretty hefty chunk of pesos.

Of course we all know that money is either tied up or already spent. But I can see how the average person decades away from retirement would think this was a great idea...big payday now inspite of it being completely unrealistic when most social security systems are essentially benevolent ponzi structures that are multi-generational.
Please let me know if there is more to this that I am missing or overlooking
yea there are a bunch of actions in the courts by various people to try and get their money released.

peru just did it, and everyone went out and spent the money. now no one has a pension.

so there is the people want the state to provide a pension. people who want their money back, and the state to provide a pension. other people who want the state to expropriate everyone else's pension to share. none of them are viable.

personally I don't want the government anywhere near my pension. I am against the AFP, simply because they suck at investing it. back In like 2015 or 2016 I think it was, a monkey with dart board could have made 20% in the market, any market, but the afps were at most making like 2% or 3%. some lost money. how the hell do you do that?
Maybe they just said they made 2 or 3 percent?🤔
AFP are not perfect, but people are stupid if they think everyone is going to get all their money back now.
Maybe they could have some sort of co op structure, whereby the profits are redistributed, 50 50 split with co op shareholders(I'd heard an 8 percent average has been achieved over the funds history) and current owners, its either share the wealth, or the county burns and they risk a very unfriendly govt in the future.
Perhaps they could release the interest accumulated when someone hits retirement, still preserving the capital. There are different options, but no one is getting all their money back.
People need to get a bit more friggin realistic and educate themselves a bit more on financial stuff too🤔. Maybe learn about the power of compound interest, I bet they dont teach that in school, too busy indoctrinating students with bs socialist beliefs from many teachers.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:32 am

so the head of the carbinareios came out yesterday and said they were suspending the use of rubber shot. why they were not using full rubber slugs, i have no idea.

well, in like the last 48 hours i have seen two involved police shootings, with real guns, in the news. one shot and killed a car jacker. this one, it is not clear that they hit any of the attackers. they attacked a squad car, and they opened fire on the attackers.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... neros.html

again, no country in the world recognizes the human rights of a dead body. they may recognize someone had their rights violated to the point they became dead, but that is where they abruptly end.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 am

Right so looks like some politicians want to lower the voting age in April to at least 16. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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