Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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Moderation of this forum will be very strict compared to other sections of the Chile Forum. “Spamming”, “Trolling”, promotion of “fake news”, “conspiracy theories” or otherwise interfering with the dissemination of accurate information in this dedicated “Crisis Forum” will result in deletion of posts, and repeat offenders will have their accounts banned.
scandinavian
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by scandinavian » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:33 pm

Videos are videos, but look at dates and when the video was actually recorded. You say "another day ..." indicating that the videos were recent. Some are from the first weekend of the demonstrations.
What do you wish to achieve with posting these tweets?

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tiagoabner
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:36 pm

A bit more on topic, VTR has been down since yesterday. They claim that their fiber cables were cut and they're currently replacing them. I couldn't pinpoint if they were cut by accident (IE forest fires, tree falling) or intentional, but this is something to keep an eye out for. Targeting the infrastructure will certainly be a way for the rioters to affect the government.
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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fraggle092
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:54 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:26 pm
So that would mean they are only getting threats after they have been caught doing something specific. As the database is already out for all Carabineros and where they are stationed. It's not hard, re-assign them new numbers and then prosecute those who are doing things to enrage people enough to attack their families...
Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome?
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41southchile
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:25 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:31 pm
41southchile wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:51 am
Dosedmonkey wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:59 pm
Another day another step closer to civil war.

https://twitter.com/R1card0Est3ban_/sta ... 03968?s=20

https://twitter.com/R1card0Est3ban_/sta ... 80224?s=20

https://twitter.com/RadioTVLiberaci/sta ... 39616?s=20

People almost killed, including the Carabineros with shields by an armoured car ramming at a peaceful protest by concerned ladies.
https://twitter.com/prensaopal/status/1 ... 46720?s=20

Evidence of Carabineros ignoring looting and targeting protests.
https://twitter.com/Alma_Negra_30/statu ... 14689?s=20

And another looting allowed...
https://twitter.com/anomico_2/status/12 ... 84832?s=20

Hit the link limit there. But you get the general picture...

Notice a lot of Carabineros have removed their identities off their uniform over the last week, so between that and balaclavas, even if the government wanted to prosecute them, you couldn't.
The twitterverse is not representative of what is happening. Just like it comes with a warning on some car wing mirrors, Twitter should come with a warning too "content maybe further from reality than it appears "
So how much police brutality is allowed to go unjustified? It's obviously not happening on every street. But it does indicate the actions and behaviour of Carabineros. For every video there will be many more incidents not on video.

I have to not post about 2-3% of the shocking videos I have seen. I guess some people will just rage if I made a page collating them. What you don't see you can deny after all.
Not denying that some cops are assholes and have behaved badly under the stress or through lack of training. I have also heard many stories of bad police behavior as far back as 1995 when I first came here, long before twitter.
I don't think anyone here is denying that there has been brutality, but I am not going to repeat the problems with only relying on Twitter, that is well documented.
Point is , what's the point raging? What's the point of sharing videos on Twitter? To insight more outrage? To make sure everyone can "see" what's going on ?
Wheres the solutions? Wheres the way forward? Wheres the accepting some responsiblity in civil society? Na far easier to repost videos and tweets on shit that has already happened, fuelling the rage , with out of context videos or maybe true, because who really knows, were you there?
Fuck social media, it's got salvageable parts, but needs reformatting and redesigning.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

mem
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by mem » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:48 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:21 pm
GAminer wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:26 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am
Fun side story: I'm currently working on a move to an apartment in Las Condes to avoid the protests close by, and I had some amusing interactions with real estate agents.

I'm the director of an US insurance brokerage firm, and I get paid a very decent salary on my US account. However, the real estate agents couldn't wrap their heads around why I didn't move all my money to Chile at the first opportunity. I needed to look at a dozen places before I could find one that didn't ask why I didn't bring my x million pesos per month to Chile. They couldn't even wrap their heads around Cuenta RUT only holding up to 3 million in balance.

Even more funny was their reaction when they learned that I don't have a car. They expect you to have a car if you make over a certain amount, as if that was a status symbol. I wonder how they would react when they learned that me and my wife arrived in Chile with one suitcase each only, and no other luggage items.

That talks a lot about medium to high income Chileans. The new rich are disconnected from the other groups, and they can't really relate with people that don't live the same way as them.
The corredoras here are idiots and fake as hell. I remember when I rented my first apartment in los dominicos the lady said just some of the stupidest and classist stuff. The good thing though is they will be more likely to waive the normal rental requirements with you, such as DICOM and all that nonsense. That is the worst part about renting in Chile.
I managed to find a place after about 20 tries. I actually do happen to have the fabled Dicom Platinum, but most of them wouldn't rent to a foreigner without a Chilean copayer/aval. I ended up calling corretoras and cutting their sales to ask outright if they would rent to me.

It may sound sexist, but the impression I got was that most corretoras were bored housewives trying to make some money on the side.
Congrats on finding a new place in las condes. How does it compare with your place with a view of plaza Italia?

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admin
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:09 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:53 am
41southchile wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am
I was thinking about this the other day, when I was dealing with one pretentious prick of an architect who came from humble beginnings but now thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
One of Chileans less attractive features is the lack of empathy. Between individuals and social classes. Greed, Envy and Resentment at the bottom, Snobbery, Selfishness and Fear further up. The attitudes here are similar to English ones 200 years ago. And there, it took two world wars to achieve a certain rapprochement between the classes.

Animal spirits. Can't be legislated away.
hey, we actually have a statistical map, using cell phone location data, of how segregated Santiago is by class and how likely to interact:

https://www.archdaily.com/928628/data-f ... n-in-chile
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:14 pm

O.k., enough with the twitter links. I was willing to allow it as mildly educational examples of social media crap being spread.

Twitter is notoriously full of bullshit lies. none of it which is trustworthy, or is any type of reliable source of information.

come on, Trump uses it.
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fraggle092
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:49 pm

admin wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:09 pm
hey, we actually have a statistical map, using cell phone location data, of how segregated Santiago is by class and how likely to interact:
According to the authors, the only exception to these trends in Santiago is the downtown area— white—, the only one that "is not statistically segregated."
That makes sense, and tends to confirm the validity of the exercise.
Interesting example of data mining.
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fraggle092
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:28 pm

Donnybrook wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:47 am
+1 For the whole post. Excellent, but don't see the point in needless repetition.

If they carry out the Plebiscite, the "Silent Majority" will vote "No", the way they voted for Piñera and not for "Chilezuela" Guillier in the last elections. Hopefully by that time this government will have got its act together in terms of public security.
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Dosedmonkey
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:39 pm

The point of putting videos online is it is not sensored by the television broadcasters and the government. I don't see how a video can be called fake news or bullshit. The comments sure, but just take the videos for what they are.
fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:54 pm
Dosedmonkey wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:26 pm
So that would mean they are only getting threats after they have been caught doing something specific. As the database is already out for all Carabineros and where they are stationed. It's not hard, re-assign them new numbers and then prosecute those who are doing things to enrage people enough to attack their families...
Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome?
That is what happens when your taken hostage and you feel emotion for those who hold you. But seeing no one is holding me captive, and I am mature enough to see a beating is a beating and has no place in law and order, I don't see your point.

The method is as important as the result. And the wrong method can cause you to never reach the desired result. That is my concern.

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fraggle092
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:51 pm

My VTR just went down in Serena. Swapped to Telefonica FO.
.
vtr down.jpg
vtr down.jpg (17.48 KiB) Viewed 375 times
And now its back!...don't think the rioters would intentionally attack the inet, how would they coordinate otherwise.
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:27 pm

My VTR went down on Friday for a couple of hours (after going months without a noticeable outage), but that case could have been forest fire related and of course it was a couple days after the main VTR San Antonio office was completely torched.
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