Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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41southchile
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:42 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:04 am
gregf wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:34 pm

Trying to catch up on details and history. Seems like the AFP is no good and people are rightfully raging about it. Also inaccessible and expensive healthcare.
If they are protesting about Healthcare, why do they attack and burn public hospitals?
As for Pensions, many of these rioters are schoolkids that haven't worked a day in their lives.

The foreign media all echo variants of the distorted story that they have been fed.
.
ENCAPUCHADOS-ATAQUE-A-BUS-MEJILLONES.jpg

Note the use of the protective glove by Molotov man.

And this, just a 10 minute walk from my place.
Who really thinks that they are going to stop when the "Social Demands" are met? They are having too much fun!
.
costa-real-la-serena-768x817.jpg
No everyday working citizen is "raging" (if by raging you mean rioting) against AFP or healthcare, nearly everyone is pissed off and angry about it , yeah they want it to be better, but they mostly still get up and go to work and carry on best they can.
The ones doing the raging and the destruction are just organized criminals, opportunistic criminals , anarchists and whoever the fuck else likes to see chaos. They are certainly not there to torch buildings like hospitals and schools because they are raging against AFP.
Fuck the foreign media when are they going to call it for what it is ?
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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tiagoabner
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:51 am

Yesterday they tested the waters at Alto Las Condes. It was the same as with Parque Arauco: mostly students and younger folks.

Source: https://amp.24horas.cl/nacional/registr ... es-3762321
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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41southchile
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:51 am

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:59 pm
Another day another step closer to civil war.

https://twitter.com/R1card0Est3ban_/sta ... 03968?s=20

https://twitter.com/R1card0Est3ban_/sta ... 80224?s=20

https://twitter.com/RadioTVLiberaci/sta ... 39616?s=20

People almost killed, including the Carabineros with shields by an armoured car ramming at a peaceful protest by concerned ladies.
https://twitter.com/prensaopal/status/1 ... 46720?s=20

Evidence of Carabineros ignoring looting and targeting protests.
https://twitter.com/Alma_Negra_30/statu ... 14689?s=20

And another looting allowed...
https://twitter.com/anomico_2/status/12 ... 84832?s=20

Hit the link limit there. But you get the general picture...

Notice a lot of Carabineros have removed their identities off their uniform over the last week, so between that and balaclavas, even if the government wanted to prosecute them, you couldn't.
The twitterverse is not representative of what is happening. Just like it comes with a warning on some car wing mirrors, Twitter should come with a warning too "content maybe further from reality than it appears "
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 am

oh, almost forgot the story of my chat with the most scared person in Chile, and for good reason.

so, we have a bit of a refugee problem developing in Frutillar, and I am trying to figure out how to deport them. They are not haitens, Venezuelans, colombians, etc.

The town is full of new rich roto assholes from los condes, hiding from the social unrest. normally we only see them for a few weeks in the summer, and they go back to their starbucks in Santiago.

so, I am down at the local pub having a beer. This new rich piece of shit, with his half-ass English, comes up to me. He is all concerned that because I am a foriegner that I am afraid. He is like, " don't worry, it will be o.k. There is nothing to be afraid of".

I tell him, "oh, this is nothing. I lived in central America and mexico. no one has shot at me today or pointed an automatic weapon at me."

His eyes about popped out of his head, as I pushed the button of his worse possible fears. It was fear, not suprise.

I could not resist. That fucker and his friends are the true public enemy # 1 of this country. In fact, I did not want to be seen talking to him too much. I don't want anyone in town to think we are friends or have anything to do with his type.

His eyes though said it all. Be afraid mother fucker. Be very afraid.

You see, the new rich, in their clueless ignorance of the world, are the ones that blew the lid off the this simmering pressure cooker of social inequality and inequity in chile. They are the fuckers, that bought the fancy sports car, with full intention to rub it in the face of the poor. They are the fuckers that hire a housekeeper, then treat them worse than their inbred toy poodle. They are fuckers that hire a maestro, then stiff them for their payments.

They are so ignorant, they don't even know they are not rich. They are a couple paychecks away from being sent back to the south side of Santiago, or wherever they come from. They are middle managment drones, with a paycheck just big enough to make them believe they own Chile; but, in reality, the people that really "own Chile" don't give a shit about them, talk behind their backs when they leave the room, and never ever invite them to their dinner parties. Mostly, because they are too fucking boring to have listen too for more than 30 seconds.

They still think pucon is the place to be in the south, and vacationing in miami makes them well traveled and international. They really are fucking some of the dullest people I have met in Chile.

The real money in Chile, knows not to rub their money in the face of the poor people. They often have generations of experience in keeping a low profile, driving a normal car, etc, etc. They teach their kids the same. Their families have seen this shit show before, and are acting accordingly. They know they got to give a little, to get a lot.

I told my wife I was going to hire some fake protesters and looters to run these fuckers off. I don't want them to start nesting in frutillar, and shitting all over the town. worse, I don't want them to start attracting real protesters and looters, just because they are here.

They are like rats. wherever they go, the plague follows.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:36 am

admin wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 am
oh, almost forgot the story of my chat with the most scared person in Chile, and for good reason.

so, we have a bit of a refugee problem developing in fruitiar, and I am trying to figure out how to deport them. They are not haitens, Venezuelans, colombians, etc.

The town is full of new rich roto assholes from los condes, hiding from the social unrest. normally we only see them for a few weeks in the summer, and they go back to their starbucks in Santiago.

so, I am down at the local pub having a beer. This new rich piece of shit, with his half-ass English, comes up to me. He is all concerned that because I am a foriegner that I am afraid. He is like, " don't worry, it will be o.k. There is nothing to be afraid of".

I tell him, "oh, this is nothing. I lived in central America and mexico. no one has shot at me today or pointed an automatic weapon at me."

His eyes about popped out of his head, as I pushed the button of his worse possible fears. It was fear, not suprise.

I could not resist. That fucker and his friends are the true public enemy # 1 of this country. In fact, I did not want to be seen talking to him too much. I don't want anyone in town to think we are friends or have anything to do with his type.

His eyes though said it all. Be afraid mother fucker. Be very afraid.

You see, the new rich, in their clueless ignorance of the world, are the ones that blew the lid off the this simmering pressure cooker of social inequality and inequity in chile. They are the fuckers, that bought the fancy sports car, with full intention to rub it in the face of the poor. They are the fuckers that hire a housekeeper, then treat them worse than their inbred toy poodle. They are fuckers that hire a maestro, then stiff them for their payments.

They are so ignorant, they don't even know they are not rich. They are a couple paychecks away from being sent back to the south side of Santiago, or wherever they come from. They are middle managment drones, with a paycheck just big enough to make them believe they own Chile; but, in reality, the people that really "own Chile" don't give a shit about them, talk behind their backs when they leave the room, and never ever invite them to their dinner parties. Mostly, because they are too fucking boring to have listen too for more than 30 seconds.

They still think pucon is the place to be in the south, and vacationing in miami makes them well traveled and international. They really are fucking some of the dullest people I have met in Chile.

The real money in Chile, knows not to rub their money in the face of the poor people. They often have generations of experience in keeping a low profile, driving a normal car, etc, etc. They teach their kids the same. Their families have seen this shit show before, and are acting accordingly. They know they got to give a little, to get a lot.

I told my wife I was going to hire some fake protesters and looters to run these fuckers off. I don't want them to start nesting in frutillar, and shitting all over the town. worse, I don't want them to start attracting real protesters and looters, just because they are here.
My read is that Chileans aren't really familiar with the difference between rich and affluent. Most new rich here make a decent dime, but don't save nearly enough. Hence, they're always 1-2 month's expenses away from being poor. They haven't heard about emergency funds, investing and retirement planning.

It's no wonder why the rich look at them like the upstarts they are. I also think that the mama boy mentality that lots of new rich have also influence their view of the world.
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by tiagoabner » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am

Fun side story: I'm currently working on a move to an apartment in Las Condes to avoid the protests close by, and I had some amusing interactions with real estate agents.

I'm the director of an US insurance brokerage firm, and I get paid a very decent salary on my US account. However, the real estate agents couldn't wrap their heads around why I didn't move all my money to Chile at the first opportunity. I needed to look at a dozen places before I could find one that didn't ask why I didn't bring my x million pesos per month to Chile. They couldn't even wrap their heads around Cuenta RUT only holding up to 3 million in balance.

Even more funny was their reaction when they learned that I don't have a car. They expect you to have a car if you make over a certain amount, as if that was a status symbol. I wonder how they would react when they learned that me and my wife arrived in Chile with one suitcase each only, and no other luggage items.

That talks a lot about medium to high income Chileans. The new rich are disconnected from the other groups, and they can't really relate with people that don't live the same way as them.
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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41southchile
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am

admin wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 am
oh, almost forgot the story of my chat with the most scared person in Chile, and for good reason.

so, we have a bit of a refugee problem developing in fruitiar, and I am trying to figure out how to deport them. They are not haitens, Venezuelans, colombians, etc.

The town is full of new rich roto assholes from los condes, hiding from the social unrest. normally we only see them for a few weeks in the summer, and they go back to their starbucks in Santiago.

so, I am down at the local pub having a beer. This new rich piece of shit, with his half-ass English, comes up to me. He is all concerned that because I am a foriegner that I am afraid. He is like, " don't worry, it will be o.k. There is nothing to be afraid of".

I tell him, "oh, this is nothing. I lived in central America and mexico. no one has shot at me today or pointed an automatic weapon at me."

His eyes about popped out of his head, as I pushed the button of his worse possible fears. It was fear, not suprise.

I could not resist. That fucker and his friends are the true public enemy # 1 of this country. In fact, I did not want to be seen talking to him too much. I don't want anyone in town to think we are friends or have anything to do with his type.

His eyes though said it all. Be afraid mother fucker. Be very afraid.

You see, the new rich, in their clueless ignorance of the world, are the ones that blew the lid off the this simmering pressure cooker of social inequality and inequity in chile. They are the fuckers, that bought the fancy sports car, with full intention to rub it in the face of the poor. They are the fuckers that hire a housekeeper, then treat them worse than their inbred toy poodle. They are fuckers that hire a maestro, then stiff them for their payments.

They are so ignorant, they don't even know they are not rich. They are a couple paychecks away from being sent back to the south side of Santiago, or wherever they come from. They are middle managment drones, with a paycheck just big enough to make them believe they own Chile; but, in reality, the people that really "own Chile" don't give a shit about them, talk behind their backs when they leave the room, and never ever invite them to their dinner parties. Mostly, because they are too fucking boring to have listen too for more than 30 seconds.

They still think pucon is the place to be in the south, and vacationing in miami makes them well traveled and international. They really are fucking some of the dullest people I have met in Chile.

The real money in Chile, knows not to rub their money in the face of the poor people. They often have generations of experience in keeping a low profile, driving a normal car, etc, etc. They teach their kids the same. Their families have seen this shit show before, and are acting accordingly. They know they got to give a little, to get a lot.

I told my wife I was going to hire some fake protesters and looters to run these fuckers off. I don't want them to start nesting in frutillar, and shitting all over the town. worse, I don't want them to start attracting real protesters and looters, just because they are here.
Brilliant, absolutely true, I was thinking about this the other day, when I was dealing with one pretentious prick of an architect who came from humble beginnings but now thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. An absolute ass hole who somehow thinks people should practically bow down to him, driving around in his friggin Mercedes pick up, absolute dick head.
Yet talking to a guy from one of the richest families in the area, he told me they were the last family in town to get a colour TV when he was growing up, his father always told him, dont provoke the masses, they never had and still don't have a particularly luxurious car.
When Chileans tell me the problem with Chile is the Chileans they are not just talking about the flaites or the scammers or the shisters or the commies or whoever, they are also definitely talking about the people you describe above.
The sort of people that speed down their street in a Ford F150 and will not even wave to their childhood friends anymore as they drive past because they haven't "made it" like them. You are right admin they are full of themselves and boring as shit.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Donnybrook » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:47 am

Although the situation is disturbing I feel that has more to do with the damage being done to jobs and infrastructure. I have a close friend who is still a big fan of the military years and sees 1970 around the corner. She has been going mental on whatsapp. I imagine others are afraid of this happening. But this is not the Chile of 1970. A hugely greater number of people now have a stake in a stable country. People who are the first in the family to own a car, a house or wear a suit, whatever political party they vote for, they are not going to give up that hold on a better life.

I believe there is more than one thing going on. There are genuine grievances - made worse by an appalling absence of any knowledge about how the system they live in actually works - which need addressing. Personal debt is a huge problem and needs to be looked at. But there is also a move to grab political power outside the ballot box. People hoping to grab some power out of the chaos. Then you have the baddies, the ones who are comfortable in the world of theft and destruction. Many looted items are being distributed in areas where the drug dealers would like a passive neighbourhood in which to operate; old mafia trick. Then the teenagers, absolutely the loudest and most disruptive but is that any surprise to anyone who has ever had a teenager in the house?

All this badly reported, especially from outside Chile and on the internet. It is so much easier, and lazier, to just grab the genuine grievances and run with them. Apparently everyone likes a revolution unless it is in their own country. There is room for some really good, in depth reporting but no one is filling that space.

As for the police, can anyone name civil unrest which has happened across a country in multiple cities for over 40 days? Countries with democratically elected governments? It isn't their excesses which are surprising but their restraint.

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:48 am

what most these middle managment assholes don't get is that in the corporate pecking order, most of them are easier to fire than say your average checkout girl, floor cleaner, etc; and when it comes time for the company to "downsize" they can fire one of them, rather than 10 of the grunt workers, plus not piss-off the poorer workers. 3/4 ths of them are dead weight anyway, running the company in to the ground.

you hear about the collusion scandals. It is not the ultra rich owners of the companys doing that shit. It is the middle managment new rich executives that trying brown nose their way up the food chain by padding their books by ripping off the poor.

They think showing that they have "made it", is treating poor people like shit. I have literally listened to a group at a party one time openly talk about it.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:57 am

Donnybrook wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:47 am
Although the situation is disturbing I feel that has more to do with the damage being done to jobs and infrastructure. I have a close friend who is still a big fan of the military years and sees 1970 around the corner. She has been going mental on whatsapp. I imagine others are afraid of this happening. But this is not the Chile of 1970. A hugely greater number of people now have a stake in a stable country. People who are the first in the family to own a car, a house or wear a suit, whatever political party they vote for, they are not going to give up that hold on a better life.

I believe there is more than one thing going on. There are genuine grievances - made worse by an appalling absence of any knowledge about how the system they live in actually works - which need addressing. Personal debt is a huge problem and needs to be looked at. But there is also a move to grab political power outside the ballot box. People hoping to grab some power out of the chaos. Then you have the baddies, the ones who are comfortable in the world of theft and destruction. Many looted items are being distributed in areas where the drug dealers would like a passive neighbourhood in which to operate; old mafia trick. Then the teenagers, absolutely the loudest and most disruptive but is that any surprise to anyone who has ever had a teenager in the house?

All this badly reported, especially from outside Chile and on the internet. It is so much easier, and lazier, to just grab the genuine grievances and run with them. Apparently everyone likes a revolution unless it is in their own country. There is room for some really good, in depth reporting but no one is filling that space.

As for the police, can anyone name civil unrest which has happened across a country in multiple cities for over 40 days? Countries with democratically elected governments? It isn't their excesses which are surprising but their restraint.
United States of America

Although the police shot and beat them the whole time.
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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by mem » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:57 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am
Fun side story: I'm currently working on a move to an apartment in Las Condes to avoid the protests close by, and I had some amusing interactions with real estate agents.

I'm the director of an US insurance brokerage firm, and I get paid a very decent salary on my US account. However, the real estate agents couldn't wrap their heads around why I didn't move all my money to Chile at the first opportunity. I needed to look at a dozen places before I could find one that didn't ask why I didn't bring my x million pesos per month to Chile. They couldn't even wrap their heads around Cuenta RUT only holding up to 3 million in balance.

Even more funny was their reaction when they learned that I don't have a car. They expect you to have a car if you make over a certain amount, as if that was a status symbol. I wonder how they would react when they learned that me and my wife arrived in Chile with one suitcase each only, and no other luggage items.

That talks a lot about medium to high income Chileans. The new rich are disconnected from the other groups, and they can't really relate with people that don't live the same way as them.
Are they really "new rich" if they are broke in 2 months if income stops coming in?

Seems more like upper middle class. I guess I'd put new rich at a few hundred thousand USD a year of income and of course massive savings/assets if they have had that income for 10 years. I guess even someone like that could be broke in a couple months if they are highly leveraged in debt, not saving, and not paying the interest in full each month as well as a big chunk of principle.

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Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:00 am

41southchile wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am
admin wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:16 am
oh, almost forgot the story of my chat with the most scared person in Chile, and for good reason.

so, we have a bit of a refugee problem developing in fruitiar, and I am trying to figure out how to deport them. They are not haitens, Venezuelans, colombians, etc.

The town is full of new rich roto assholes from los condes, hiding from the social unrest. normally we only see them for a few weeks in the summer, and they go back to their starbucks in Santiago.

so, I am down at the local pub having a beer. This new rich piece of shit, with his half-ass English, comes up to me. He is all concerned that because I am a foriegner that I am afraid. He is like, " don't worry, it will be o.k. There is nothing to be afraid of".

I tell him, "oh, this is nothing. I lived in central America and mexico. no one has shot at me today or pointed an automatic weapon at me."

His eyes about popped out of his head, as I pushed the button of his worse possible fears. It was fear, not suprise.

I could not resist. That fucker and his friends are the true public enemy # 1 of this country. In fact, I did not want to be seen talking to him too much. I don't want anyone in town to think we are friends or have anything to do with his type.

His eyes though said it all. Be afraid mother fucker. Be very afraid.

You see, the new rich, in their clueless ignorance of the world, are the ones that blew the lid off the this simmering pressure cooker of social inequality and inequity in chile. They are the fuckers, that bought the fancy sports car, with full intention to rub it in the face of the poor. They are the fuckers that hire a housekeeper, then treat them worse than their inbred toy poodle. They are fuckers that hire a maestro, then stiff them for their payments.

They are so ignorant, they don't even know they are not rich. They are a couple paychecks away from being sent back to the south side of Santiago, or wherever they come from. They are middle managment drones, with a paycheck just big enough to make them believe they own Chile; but, in reality, the people that really "own Chile" don't give a shit about them, talk behind their backs when they leave the room, and never ever invite them to their dinner parties. Mostly, because they are too fucking boring to have listen too for more than 30 seconds.

They still think pucon is the place to be in the south, and vacationing in miami makes them well traveled and international. They really are fucking some of the dullest people I have met in Chile.

The real money in Chile, knows not to rub their money in the face of the poor people. They often have generations of experience in keeping a low profile, driving a normal car, etc, etc. They teach their kids the same. Their families have seen this shit show before, and are acting accordingly. They know they got to give a little, to get a lot.

I told my wife I was going to hire some fake protesters and looters to run these fuckers off. I don't want them to start nesting in frutillar, and shitting all over the town. worse, I don't want them to start attracting real protesters and looters, just because they are here.
Brilliant, absolutely true, I was thinking about this the other day, when I was dealing with one pretentious prick of an architect who came from humble beginnings but now thinks he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. An absolute ass hole who somehow thinks people should practically bow down to him, driving around in his friggin Mercedes pick up, absolute dick head.
Yet talking to a guy from one of the richest families in the area, he told me they were the last family in town to get a colour TV when he was growing up, his father always told him, dont provoke the masses, they never had and still don't have a particularly luxurious car.
When Chileans tell me the problem with Chile is the Chileans they are not just talking about the flaites or the scammers or the shisters or the commies or whoever, they are also definitely talking about the people you describe above.
The sort of people that speed down their street in a Ford F150 and will not even wave to their childhood friends anymore as they drive past because they haven't "made it" like them. You are right admin they are full of themselves and boring as shit.
I got passed a while back on rural highway by a guy in his new F-150. I normally curse at such assholes that make unsafe passes.

I told my wife, "I'll let that guy go. He is in a real hurry to get to his destination before his Ford breaks down again". :lol:
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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