Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
Forum rules
Moderation of this forum will be very strict compared to other sections of the Chile Forum. “Spamming”, “Trolling”, promotion of “fake news”, “conspiracy theories” or otherwise interfering with the dissemination of accurate information in this dedicated “Crisis Forum” will result in deletion of posts, and repeat offenders will have their accounts banned.
Locked
User avatar
41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 2009
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by 41southchile » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:53 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:34 pm
here is a new poll out. 56% admit they do not under stand nor have read the constitution.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... ucion.html

but as one commentator asked under that article, do you really believe 42% of the population has read the constitution?
Haha yeah I thought 56 was too low.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:16 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:48 pm

they are going to miss those little rubber balls, that just made you go ouch.
Just go ouch and lose sight in one eye for the test of your life. 🙄

Doubt the Carabineros using pistols are the same riot police that have had the rubber shot anyway. They can't just fire off pistols on to crowds head height the same as they have been with the rubber shot. I am just wondering why it took them so long to ban the rubber shot.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22651
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:48 pm

let's say 20,000 hard core protesters a day directly confronting the police x 30 days or 600,000 protesters directly confronting the police. the same wankers probably confronted the police for days, repeatedly., increasing the probability of being hit at all.

200 eye injuries

or around 0.033% eye injuries

there were probably as many eye injuries from so many people in one place just throwing rocks.

yea, we are missing how many shots, distance, etc, but you would expect a whole lot more under the circumstances. point is, daaaaa, directly confronting an armed force is dangerous.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22651
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:53 pm

let me put that stat in perspective.

if I recall right, the u.s. military calculates when they deploy a force to the field an injury or death rate of 8%, just from having a bunch of humans around a bunch of dangerous machinery; that is before they even get shot at.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22651
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:05 pm

here you go you stupid fucking morons, the economic 101 lesson continues.

This teacher, about to retire, lost 10 million pesos from his AFP fund in the last 2 months.

https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nac ... eses.shtml
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:29 pm

admin wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:53 pm
let me put that stat in perspective.

if I recall right, the u.s. military calculates when they deploy a force to the field an injury or death rate of 8%, just from having a bunch of humans around a bunch of dangerous machinery; that is before they even get shot at.
I totally agree with that But the truth is, even used with restraint that kind of weapon is a PR disaster, indiscriminately injuring targets as well as inoccent parties. Other countries have learnt that over the years and I do wonder if the ammunition was sold off cheap by Italy (it seems much of it is from there) for exactly that reason.

It was a total disaster in Northern Ireland 30 years ago, and that was solid rubber rounds, not this shotgun style wide blast pattern stuff.

I mean the Carabineros shouldn't be throwing rocks either.

And then there is just video after video of it being recklessly used. A video yesterday showed six Carabineros standing around a shopping street in Vina, and then one Carabinero walks out with a CS gas hand grenade, throws it in to the shopping street with just normal people walking by, then he lets off a grenade launcher gas round much further distance. The other Carabineros are caught off guard and have to run in to stop passer bus going up to the guy.

Sr. El Puelche
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:24 am

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:40 pm

Now Colombia is tipping:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ivan-duque

More than likely the Carabineros will be disbanded and professionalized outside of the paramilitary organization that it is now----- kind of like any other modern police force in the world-----Military will take over provisionally until this can be worked out----probably take three years at least----the trick will be to do it before gu**** ci*** gets going. Not saying its going happen tomorrow but most likely by the end of summer when everyone is done with vacation and the shortages can actually be seen-----it will take awhile to get Pinera to see the light or scare him bad enough and he quits-----still all the social inequality the left is calling out will have to be worked out and that is never smooth.

####

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22651
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:53 am

well, here comes the left with sudden plan to hijack the constitutional process. they don't want 2/3 voting on the constitution (because they know it would shut them out), but want to force simple majority. constitutions have a higher requirement for avery very good reason.

they are also pushing to let everyone from 16 yearold to even 14 yearold vote.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... uerdo.html
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22651
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:23 am

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:29 pm
admin wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:53 pm
let me put that stat in perspective.

if I recall right, the u.s. military calculates when they deploy a force to the field an injury or death rate of 8%, just from having a bunch of humans around a bunch of dangerous machinery; that is before they even get shot at.
I totally agree with that But the truth is, even used with restraint that kind of weapon is a PR disaster, indiscriminately injuring targets as well as inoccent parties. Other countries have learnt that over the years and I do wonder if the ammunition was sold off cheap by Italy (it seems much of it is from there) for exactly that reason.

It was a total disaster in Northern Ireland 30 years ago, and that was solid rubber rounds, not this shotgun style wide blast pattern stuff.

I mean the Carabineros shouldn't be throwing rocks either.

And then there is just video after video of it being recklessly used. A video yesterday showed six Carabineros standing around a shopping street in Vina, and then one Carabinero walks out with a CS gas hand grenade, throws it in to the shopping street with just normal people walking by, then he lets off a grenade launcher gas round much further distance. The other Carabineros are caught off guard and have to run in to stop passer bus going up to the guy.

[/quote]


this one thing i have been rather shocked by was the lack of training and understanding about how shotguns work from both statements by the police and the videos i have seen.

the company that makes the shells, says 20 meters minimum, and not designed to be aimed at peoples heads.

I use to bird hunt a lot as a kid. I have been hit by likly thousands of lead bird shot without ever being injured, but my hunting partners were never 'Dick Cheney' close when they fired say a number 7 or 8 birdshot my direction. but at under say 10 feet, that plastic wadding in those shotgun shells, even if there was no other load in it, will kill or at least definitely ruin your day, all by itself. yet, I have seen repeated videos of the police firing those shotguns at very close range, and they were not aiming at legs or feet. no matter what the shot is, at close range they come out as a fairly tight solid slug.

I use to wait until birds were a good 20 feet away to shoot, because I learned the hard way at close range with a 12 gauge, they would just turn in to a cloud of feathers. I also learned how to "wing" birds by offsetting my shot. it was not necessary to hit them full on ceneter with the shot pattern. that just left you with a small bird that was more lead than meat. a few pellets on the edge of the shot pattern was ideal.

point is, even with real lead bird shot, a skilled shooter, could 'wing' a person say in the foot, leg, or arm and they would most likely just need a pair of tweezers and some rubbing alcohol. with even moderately heavy clothing, not even that. It would not kill them or even permanently injure them. It would definitely get their immediate attention.

but, if you just hand a shotgun to an untrained shooter, it does not matter what is in the shell, it is deadly at close range and indiscriminate shooting at peoples heads.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 22651
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by admin » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:41 am

in fact, when the investigation is done, I would be surprised to find out most of the police had ever fired more than 100 rounds of any type out of a shotgun, let alone with these rubber balls in them, prior to being issued one when this mess started. we will probably find out many of them had never fired one before or almost never. even then, it was probably something like solid slugs or buckshot, with shoot to kill training.

prior to this mess, I can almost never recall seeing any police officer in chile ever even carrying a shotgun for any reason. whole diffrent animal compared to say a 38, 357, 9mm, whatever handgun they train with and carry everyday.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:47 am

admin wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:41 am
in fact, when the investigation is done, I would be surprised to find out most of the police had ever fired more than 100 rounds of any type out of a shotgun, let alone with these rubber balls in them, prior to being issued one when this mess started. we will probably find out many of them had never fired one before or almost never. even then, it was probably something like solid slugs or buckshot, with shoot to kill training.

prior to this mess, I can almost never recall seeing any police officer in chile ever even carrying a shotgun for any reason. whole diffrent animal compared to say a 38, 357, 9mm, whatever handgun they train with and carry everyday.
I concur. I believe they might get training with them in basic training but that's it. But saying that I was shocked with Chilean merchant navy, where Chilean mariners I have met have the international certificate for sea survival but have never seen a liferaft, despite the training being completely based around them. In 2011 student protests I remember a few of the banks security guards in Centro having shotguns too. I think the same as USA pre-1997 it was the common heavier weapon to have in a city patrol car, but then post the bank robbery (North Hollywood shootout) with the two guys in full body armour and ak47s a lot of US cities upgraded to carrying M4s on patrols. Shotguns are clumsy weapons designed for clearing the trenches of WW1 after all.

I notice since the Carabinero car getting attacked in Bella Vista area yesterday a lot of twitter users who had nothing to say have come out now and called the protestors communists/Marxists and using the attack on the Carabinero patrol as enough evidence. Myths me why marxists a bit as the violent ones were anarchists, and now just a muddle of angry young people who have seen crimes committed by Carabineros go unaccounted for. If they were truly Marxists surely they'd be smuggling or stealing weapons and trying to actually harm the countries infastructure with live rounds and explosives.

Seems like a bit of a cold war hang up in Chile still, both the protestors comparing the government to dictators and the other side claiming the protestors are Marxists. They didn't get the cold war out of their systems unlike some of the other countries that had their violent cold war civil wars already. The new Netflix series of Narcos says how the Mexico secret service shot hundreds of student protestors in one incident, 1968 Olympics, never heard of that one before, just reading in to it briefly, sounds like no one still really knows what the truth is on it 60 years later.

User avatar
Dosedmonkey
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:27 am

Re: Chile Political and Social Crisis 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:04 am

Only about 1% of comments say the justice system needs changing so criminals aren't let free, there is a few sensible people out there. Meanwhile 99% say that the Carabineros need to be more violent to prevent law and disorder. This is probably a big factor in why the violence is in an endless cycle currently.

Obviously even with better judicial sentencing inoccent people being abducted will just be released still and fuel the anger more, so they really need to stop arresting people just because they are videoing incidents.

Liturally the Carabineros have been caught by the Noticias throwing stones now they can't use shotguns. 😅
https://twitter.com/_chicadehumo_/statu ... 25059?s=20

Locked