Let us write a constitution for Chile.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:15 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:43 pm
fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm
"let's all build a nuclear fusion reactor!"
Why not :P :?:
FYI, Argentina tried that. Their constution still sucks.

viewtopic.php?t=17209

:lol: :fire:
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:29 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:09 pm
more recent one.

go read the history of the venezuela constitutional "reform".
Yes, I did and found a good article here.
The Venezuelan Supreme Court, facing threats and political pressure, opened the door to dictatorship and allowed the 1961 constitution to become mere words on parchment.
fraggle092 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:46 pm
Constitution, schmonstitution...just words on paper.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:55 pm

Here's Chile's regulatory system, showing why the Left wants Constitutional reform.
The role of the Tribunal Constitutional is also mentioned. Some may remember efforts to abolish it during Bachelet's last administration, in an attempt to eliminate the ultimate barrier to arbitrary governance by unprincipled politicians.
What we have seen recently is more of the same, from other angles of attack, both literally and figuratively.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by Donnybrook2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:35 pm

I haven't read all the posts on this as I have been shut out of the forum for a while. Couldn't get a reply to "forgot password" a few times so registered again and added a 2 to my username. Anyway, in case it has not been discussed, check that you are still voting in the same place. Mine has changed. They are adding more voting places to avoid a crush so your table may have moved. I have the same number table but in a different place.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:45 pm

Same here. I used to have to walk 1 km to vote, this time it is literally next door at the private institute same table number. Wife has to walk to the plaza to get to her mesa. I understand this male-female separation is to prevent the husband from pressuring the wife on the vote.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by tiagoabner » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm

So, we're 10 days away from the plebiscite. Did anyone ever get an Apruebo supporter to explain what do they dislike in the current constitution? All they can do as far as I can see is to spew over the left's "it was written during the dictatorship" Kool aid while ignoring that it was amended profusely during Lagos' government.

I can't vote yet, but it has been really hard to get some solid arguments for why the constitution needs to be changed. I would appreciate any resources or links to read about that. Even though I'm against changing the constitution due to the legal implications, I would like to learn about what the other side has to say. It just happens that their message has a lot of noise.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by Donnybrook2 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:34 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:45 pm
Same here. I used to have to walk 1 km to vote, this time it is literally next door at the private institute same table number. Wife has to walk to the plaza to get to her mesa. I understand this male-female separation is to prevent the husband from pressuring the wife on the vote.
Unfortunately, my new place is 3kms away instead of walking distance. I won't use public transport - from my house nothing goes close anyway - so will have to drive and find parking. My table has been mixed gender since I have been voting. 2012?

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:49 pm

Donnybrook2 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:34 pm
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:45 pm
Same here. I used to have to walk 1 km to vote, this time it is literally next door at the private institute same table number. Wife has to walk to the plaza to get to her mesa. I understand this male-female separation is to prevent the husband from pressuring the wife on the vote.
Unfortunately, my new place is 3kms away instead of walking distance. I won't use public transport - from my house nothing goes close anyway - so will have to drive and find parking. My table has been mixed gender since I have been voting. 2012?
Yes the tables are mixed but we are both registered at the same address but have completely different voting locations.
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the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:55 pm

when I first qualified to vote in chile, was also about the time they started creating mixed tables. the last table formed was all women, so they added me to it.

I am sort of running joke among the girls, as the only guy, and a gringo. think i lost count, but that was like 6 elections ago.

yes, I feel pressured.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:04 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm
Did anyone ever get an Apruebo supporter to explain what do they dislike in the current constitution?
Even trying to find the reasons for changing the Constitution means that you must be a facho and fair game for harassment. It would be brave, or rather foolhardy to walk around sporting a Rechazo badge right now.

"No son 30 pesos, son 30 años" is all that the Apruebonaos can come up with, in their more lucid moments.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by 41southchile » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:35 am

tiagoabner wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm
So, we're 10 days away from the plebiscite. Did anyone ever get an Apruebo supporter to explain what do they dislike in the current constitution? All they can do as far as I can see is to spew over the left's "it was written during the dictatorship" Kool aid while ignoring that it was amended profusely during Lagos' government.

No thats a big negative here as well, they either don't understand the constitution or much about the way their country works or whatever else.
I really tried with an open mind and was trying to understand their arguments, I couldn't. Mostly incoherent, simplistic, and ignorant, were the general conclusions I got from Apruebo supporters.
I guess this is a conscience vote as they call it in NZ parliament. Its not like a presidential election where there are clear "good guys" and "bad guys". This plebiscite involves thinking and making up ones own mind rather than being convinced by candidates, in a country where the completely ignorant outnumber the educated by a factor of about 2 to 1 , thats a concern.
Who knows, 🤔 maybe I'm wrong and people have been thinking for themselves and educating themselves over lockdowns. Time will tell.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by tiagoabner » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:10 am

41southchile wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:35 am
tiagoabner wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:55 pm
So, we're 10 days away from the plebiscite. Did anyone ever get an Apruebo supporter to explain what do they dislike in the current constitution? All they can do as far as I can see is to spew over the left's "it was written during the dictatorship" Kool aid while ignoring that it was amended profusely during Lagos' government.

No thats a big negative here as well, they either don't understand the constitution or much about the way their country works or whatever else.
I really tried with an open mind and was trying to understand their arguments, I couldn't. Mostly incoherent, simplistic, and ignorant, were the general conclusions I got from Apruebo supporters.
I guess this is a conscience vote as they call it in NZ parliament. Its not like a presidential election where there are clear "good guys" and "bad guys". This plebiscite involves thinking and making up ones own mind rather than being convinced by candidates, in a country where the completely ignorant outnumber the educated by a factor of about 2 to 1 , thats a concern.
Who knows, 🤔 maybe I'm wrong and people have been thinking for themselves and educating themselves over lockdowns. Time will tell.
Damn, I thought I was lacking Spanish skills or maybe I was trying to look at the wrong places. Still, I'm absolutely open to read if anyone has a breakdown of the Apruebo points that doesn't go into a "it was written during the dictatorship" rabbithole.

I hope Chile doesn't get itself into a Brexit-like mess, where a pointless vote screws the country for the decades to come.
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