Let us write a constitution for Chile.

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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:12 pm

Britkid wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:26 pm
So - probably we should read the current constitution before voting on it?

Looks like it´s this:

https://www.senado.cl/constitucion-poli ... 93048.html

Can someone confirm that is the right document, the constitution of Chile as it stands today....?
From that Senate link:
Última actualización de la Constitución: Ley Nº 21.257, del 27 de agosto de 2020
So yes.

There are quite a few versions of the Constitution floating around. Even alternatives on "official" sites aren't up to date.
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm

Even just reading the Constitution doesn't mean much unless you are a specialized lawyer, and an expert in Public Administration; most of it consists of definitions of the mechanics of governing the country.

How many people are even aware of its underlying principle of Subsidiarity? That's what the Communists want to do away with, in the name of Igualdad. They want to collectivize Chile, with them running it of course, and have never pretended otherwise. Its still 1935 in their country. Or perhaps they anticipate a rehash of 1917 in Chile.

Incidentally the title of this topic is awful presumptuous, it's on the lines of "let's all build a nuclear fusion reactor!"
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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:43 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm
"let's all build a nuclear fusion reactor!"
Why not :P :?:
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:05 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:43 pm
fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm
"let's all build a nuclear fusion reactor!"
Why not :P :?:
OK, you start! Sometimes building a sandwich is too much for me...
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tiagoabner
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by tiagoabner » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:10 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm
Incidentally the title of this topic is awful presumptuous, it's on the lines of "let's all build a nuclear fusion reactor!"
I think it would've been presumptuous in a vacuum. But given that we're 2 weeks away from a vote on writing a new constitution, talking about how that would even be possible is perfectly reasonable.

I mean, admin runs the largest law firm in the country focused on foreigners and he's married to a Chilean lawyer. If he can't speak on this topic, I don't even know who would be able to do so.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:55 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:10 pm
fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 pm
Incidentally the title of this topic is awful presumptuous, it's on the lines of "let's all build a nuclear fusion reactor!"
I think it would've been presumptuous in a vacuum. But given that we're 2 weeks away from a vote on writing a new constitution, talking about how that would even be possible is perfectly reasonable.

I mean, admin runs the largest law firm in the country focused on foreigners and he's married to a Chilean lawyer. If he can't speak on this topic, I don't even know who would be able to do so.
That is a loaded question, even in our household.

My wife and I have very different views on writing a new constution, what it should look like, who should write it, on and on and on.

What is even more fun is my wife has been sitting in on various legal seminars on the constution. listen to a couple hundred legal experts for a little while, and you quickly discover they don't have any sort of consensus either.

winston churchill on what good is a constution (pdf):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2611153590
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:57 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:10 pm
I think it would've been presumptuous in a vacuum. But given that we're 2 weeks away from a vote on writing a new constitution, talking about how that would even be possible is perfectly reasonable.
Its the title of the topic I was referring to, not the topic itself....
admin wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:55 pm
What is even more fun is my wife has been sitting in on various legal seminars on the constution. listen to a couple hundred legal experts for a little while, and you quickly discover they don't have any sort of consensus either
My point exactly. So how can a forum of non-experts be expected to come up with anything sensible?
The other point I was trying to make is that the blank paper "New Constitution" may be just a Trojan Horse.
Here's a Trotskyite, Luís Mesina, Mr. "No+ AFP" on that subject:
.
1917].jpg
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:39 pm

the left is full of hard core old school communist koolaid drinkers trying to pretend to be something else; because they would never be able to have as much power as they have, if their bullshit was propely labeled for what it is by the media.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:12 pm

Last thing from me: a debate in today's EMOL on property and water rights by a couple of real experts.

There is a big difference between what experts come up with in rational debate where all options can appear reasonable, and what the political rabble eventually votes for. That these items are on the Reform agenda is yet another symptom of a creeping collectivist tendency, as seen in the No+AFP movement and in other areas.
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experts.jpg
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And a follow-up here: https://www.emol.com/noticias/Economia/ ... iedad.html
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by 41southchile » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:39 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:12 pm


There is a big difference between what experts come up with in rational debate where all options can appear reasonable, and what the political rabble eventually votes for.
Of course there is, thats exactly what I thought when I read that , experts can wax lyrical about property rights now before the fact, but its pretty easy to imagine a different situation in Shile in the months/year ahead.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:46 pm

Constitution, schmonstitution...just words on paper. Hate to keep on with the "Reds under the Bed" theme, but this example is revealing:
“The Stalin Constitution,” which passed into law in December 1936, at a time when the Yezhovshchina was at its height, must be considered among Stalin’s more playful inventions. At a time when mass executions were taking place daily and some seven million people were reduced to slave-workers in labor camps, Stalin solemnly declared that the government accepted fullheartedly the provisions of the Constitution which declared:
 
Article 125. In conformity with the interests of the working people, and in order to strengthen the socialist system, the citizens of the U.S.S.R. are guaranteed by law:

a) Freedom of speech,
(b) Freedom of the press,
(c) Freedom of assembly, including the holding of mass meetings.
(d) Freedom of street processions and demonstrations.
etc, etc....
Robert Payne - The rise and fall of Stalin

This is what hindsight had to say about that constitution:
Many who lauded Stalin's Soviet Union as the most democratic country on earth lived to regret their words. After all, the Soviet Constitution of 1936 was adopted on the eve of the Great Terror of the late 1930s; the "thoroughly democratic" elections to the first Supreme Soviet permitted only uncontested candidates and took place at the height of the savage violence in 1937. The civil rights, personal freedoms, and democratic forms promised in the Stalin constitution were trampled almost immediately and remained dead letters until long after Stalin's death.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:09 pm

more recent one.

go read the history of the venezuela constitutional "reform".
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