Let us write a constitution for Chile.

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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:00 pm

41southchile wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:25 am
Lol, 100s of arrests, a couple of deaths, historic churche burnt to the ground, lots of destroyed public and private property, yeah I guess all things considered that counts as relatively constrained/contained in Chile.
From todays Newsweek:
Shock and outrage from the UK:
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Man tries to tear cross down from the roof of church.jpg
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If only they knew..... :roll:
Not a mention anywhere of last night's local efforts in the international press.

At least we don't have many radical "Muslims" here, excepting that piece of work, presidential pre-candidate Mayor Daniel Jadue.
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Man tries to tear cross down.png
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:08 pm

Mary Anastasia O'Grady, writing in the WSJ, is one of the few foreign journalists that gets close to reality:
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WSJ.jpg
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Its probably unreadable on a small screen, so here's the bottom line, referring to the composition of a new Constitution:
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WSJ2.jpg
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admin
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:42 pm

click on the image to get a bigger view, and it readiable.

the last part about the Brazilian experience was the best part. the rest is sort of recanned rechazo arguments.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:44 pm

yea, the problem is the left has already promised way, way more than can ever be delivered in a constution.

no one is managing expectations.

the consequences of that will be serious.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:53 pm

there is this narrative on the left that chile is going to write a constution like switzerland or norway, and magically chile will be just like Switzerland or Norway.
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:11 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:42 pm
the last part about the Brazilian experience was the best part. the rest is sort of recanned rechazo arguments.
Maybe not so re-canned for a foreign audience that usually gets the sympathetic desigualdad narrative shown on the BBC and in the "progressive" press.
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:18 pm

From the latest CADEM, showing that 68% polled are in favour of the forceful suppression of violence, Mano Dura, during the "manifestations" with 25% disapproving.

Since violence has been the main feature of the estallido, even before constitutional reform was dredged up as the Casus Belli, it seems curious that the majority would even want to associate with it. Despite the occasional presence of the much-mentioned "peaceful protesters", the campaign has been an orgy of violence, looting and destruction carried out with the active and passive complicity of many politicians.

But after all who, in their right minds, can approve of the torching of the church their parents were married in, or the sacking of the public hospital they take their kids to for medical treatment? It's not possible to decouple the two forms of protest; one always goes hand in hand with the other.

And what exactly were these protesters, peaceful and otherwise, celebrating last weekend? The anniversary of a wave of damage and destruction that included 80 Metro stations with repair costs to them alone estimated at around 300 Million USD?, The total cost to the nation must run into Billions.

So those massive Apruebo statistics seem to either indicate schizophrenia in the Chilean public who refuse to see the link between the violence and those energetic moves to unseat the government or, more likely they have been grossly manipulated by a cowardly, acquiescent media.

Inasmuch as any information can be trusted these days, I believe this rejection of violence may correlate with the voters true intentions, and points toward a Rechazo win. But I wouldn't put money on it- yet. A few more days of mayhem could tip the balance, given the misery these selfish animals are still inflicting on the rest of the population, with more still to come.
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ghibli
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by ghibli » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:08 am

I always appreciate your posts fraggle....thanks for taking the time.

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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by tiagoabner » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:22 am

704 seems like a small sample size, but yeah, I think there may be some correlation between the plebiscite vote and people who disapprove all the violence we've been having. Also, it's worth pointing out that older voters show up to vote more frequently. Source: https://www.servel.cl/estadisticas-de-p ... xo-y-edad/
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:46 am

Thanks. I'm glad I got my point across, I try to look as deeply as I can. The true awfulness of public morality I see here, or rather its lack, and the smokescreens that have been generated to cover true intentions is not just facho paranoia on my part. At least I hope not. :?

But despite the theorizing, piggish self-interest may win out. The pueblo, while nominally deploring violence may be prepared to tolerate it if they think they personally will come out ahead, which means they actually believe the false promises of the reformers. So who knows?
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by tiagoabner » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:54 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:46 am
(...) which means they actually believe the false promises of the reformers. So who knows?
This comes to mind when I think about the expectations regarding the reformers' promises. It was originally a satire of the Brexit process, but it certainly applies to our situation in Chile.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:14 pm

like I have said before, you can promise everyone a right to a rainbow and unicorn all you like in a constution; but, how are you going to enforce that right?

The current constution is full of rainbows and unicorns.

without the mechanisms to produce the rainbows, unicorns, and other widgets, along with a court system to enforce them, it is all just a great big wish list to Santa Clause.
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