Let us write a constitution for Chile.

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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:25 pm

Fernando Villegas believes that Rechazo will win, at least in the areas that have been affected by the "manifestations", the Zona Cero. And he believes, as I do, that its FEAR (of the self-appointed defenders of Human Rights) that is stopping people from voicing their opinion:
"...algunos me han dicho, unas personas están convencidos de que el Rechazo va a ganar, porque, precisamente por este temor, mucha gente que está decidido votar Rechazo no lo dicen, ni siquiera cuando le pregunten anónimamente en una encuesta.......cuantos Chilenos más están "hasta la coronilla" de lo que hemos estando viviendo desde hace un año..."


If you don't know Villegas, his daily YouTube commentaries are usually worth watching.
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ghibli
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by ghibli » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:27 pm

"Here are some of the reasons I’ve heard for why people are voting “Apruebo”:

- The powers that companies and individuals have to control natural resources.
- The lack of a guarantee of quality education and healthcare.
- Lack of implementation of regulations protect the environment.
- Lack of regulation and protection of Chile’s coastline.
- The fact the constitution was created during a dictatorship (even though it had been amended various times, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider this a legitimate reason).
- Vague wording in the constitution on the protection and promotion of human rights.
- The promotion and protection of reproductive rights."

Completely agree that these are the things which need to be changed - soon! Plus some kind of revision of the pension "system" The question is can this be done through amending the current constitution (other than the dictatorship issue which is unchangeable history) If there could be amendments - beginning as I say with a very clearly worded declaration of basic rights - would this not be faster and less vulnerable to people who love to throw wrenches... ? I don't know the answer! Who does right? But the fear of a brexit style limbo horror for years and years is very real. BTW, chile was the first country in the world to ban whaling - so that's something.... albeit long ago.

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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:53 am

ghibli wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:27 pm
"Here are some of the reasons I’ve heard for why people are voting “Apruebo”:
Here's my reason for not believing their claims:
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nueva con.jpg
nueva con.jpg (39.58 KiB) Viewed 213 times
.
We may actually see a reduction of incidents in the run up to voting day as its organizers know that violence aids the rechazo sentiment. It happened before in this country and the protagonists have long memories.
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41southchile
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by 41southchile » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:26 am

alextrombone wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:30 pm
Here are some of the reasons I’ve heard for why people are voting “Apruebo”:

- The powers that companies and individuals have to control natural resources.
- The lack of a guarantee of quality education and healthcare.
- Lack of implementation of regulations protect the environment.
- Lack of regulation and protection of Chile’s coastline.
- The fact the constitution was created during a dictatorship (even though it had been amended various times, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider this a legitimate reason).
- Vague wording in the constitution on the protection and promotion of human rights.
- The promotion and protection of reproductive rights.

Obviously there’s a debate to be had, especially with the actual process of writing a new constitution. But, from what I’ve heard from Apruebo voters, there are some pretty solid reasons for wanting a new constitution, and the majority do legitimately care about the future of their country and don’t want to see it all burn down.
Fair enough points

-The powers that companies and individuals have to control natural resources.

That needs a constitution change?
?

- The lack of a guarantee of quality education and healthcare.

That needs a constitution change?
?

- Lack of implementation of regulations protect the environment.

That needs a constitution change?
?

- Lack of regulation and protection of Chile’s coastline.

That needs a constitution change?
?

- The fact the constitution was created during a dictatorship (even though it had been amended various times, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider this a legitimate reason).

Throwing the baby out with the bath water logic, grow up Chile

- Vague wording in the constitution on the protection and promotion of human rights.

What sort of human rights and for who?
?


- The promotion and protection of reproductive rights
Human reproductive rights? So human rights?

That needs a constitution change?
?

Yeah I'm sure the majority legitimately care, and don't want to see their country burn down.
However its the same logic used by Chileans who will glow and beam with pride about how wonderful and beautiful the natural beauty is in their country, but then go and litter and dump trash in unspoilt areas.
Or how much solidarity there is with fellow citizens and yet they cant even look after their young in institutions like senami, then blame the govt for all the ills in society .

For me it also seemed strange however though that so many tacitly supported the violence last year and refused to denounce it. Maybe its that ignorance creeping in , whatever, its a country of hypocrisy and lack of self awareness on a nationwide scale.
Obviously there are exceptions, like everything in life.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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admin
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:36 am

I suspect, they get in to writing this constution, and quickly discover that to write a constution that works, and will be accepted at the poles by a majority if Chileans, means including a lot of what is in the current constution. yea, they can reword it, but at the end of the day it will have to be functionally equivalent.

which I sm sure will make the communist howel like banchies.

one of the more encouraging things going on is the universities are waving contract terms of their professors that are experts in related fields to allow them to run for the assembly. They are also making available university resources for them if they are elected.
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:08 pm

Do you share the same aims as the lumpen who did this?
In that case vote Apruebo and get the half-assed Constitution and government that you deserve.
.
Se desmorona aguja de la Parroquia La Asunción en Santiago tras ser incendiada durante manifestación.png
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admin
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:14 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:08 pm
Do you share the same aims as the lumpen who did this?
In that case vote Apruebo and get the government you deserve.
.
Se desmorona aguja de la Parroquia La Asunción en Santiago tras ser incendiada durante manifestación.png
and the sun just went down in Santiago. Time for the vampires to come out.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:16 pm

They might not get a new constution, but they might get a new santiago.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:21 pm

At least in the campo outside frutillar in southern Chile, cold and rainy. couple if noisy birds, and couple dogs telling them to shut up.

we are under quarantine. the poor section of town has had military deployed for a couple weeks now to enforce the quartine. osorno and puerto mont are under lockdown.

I got 8 dogs now. the fliates might not be afraid of the police, but they are definitely afraid of dogs. :lol:
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fraggle092
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:26 pm

Here in Serena have just seen a string of young encapuchados heading to the town centre. The cops all seem to be in hiding, their only presence is the occasional Drone overhead.
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by admin » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:00 am

still digging through the morning reports, but seems that was relatively contained.
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41southchile
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Re: Let us write a constitution for Chile.

Post by 41southchile » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:25 am

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:00 am
still digging through the morning reports, but seems that was relatively contained.
Lol, 100s of arrests, a couple of deaths, historic churche burnt to the ground, lots of destroyed public and private property, yeah I guess all things considered that counts as relatively constrained/contained in Chile.
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