Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

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Britkid
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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by Britkid » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:57 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:33 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:20 am
Yeah but what if the other patrons and staff started turning into vampires? :alien:
I ate a fish taco off a street cart at 3 A.M. in the morning. spent the next three weeks near death in Mexico with food poisoning. Sometimes it is the little things that get you.
Lol, I had a similar experience buying seafood off a street stall in Zanzibar, Africa, in 2003. A few days after that I made a no seafood from street stalls rule.

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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by admin » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:03 pm

Britkid wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:57 pm
admin wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:33 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:20 am
Yeah but what if the other patrons and staff started turning into vampires? :alien:
I ate a fish taco off a street cart at 3 A.M. in the morning. spent the next three weeks near death in Mexico with food poisoning. Sometimes it is the little things that get you.
Lol, I had a similar experience buying seafood off a street stall in Zanzibar, Africa, in 2003. A few days after that I made a no seafood from street stalls rule.
I was really drunk. I would never eat a fish taco under any circumstance. That was my first and last.
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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by tiagoabner » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:47 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:18 pm
If the law does not convince a foriegner to stay away from the protests, perhaps this will.

This is the sorts of calculations I have to do to even start to estimate a price for this sort of thing.

If a foriegner is arrested in or around one of these protests, they have exactly one legal move to even have a chance of staying in the country, let alone out of jail.

The case needs to be killed at the time of detention, before formal report hits the system. typically means before the shift of the arresting officer is over, because after that it hits the system, and things start getting way more expensive and the consequences much more uncertain.

so say you get arrested at 11 p.m. on a friday night. your family or friends calls us, at 12. p.m., we are working after curfew, in the middle of a national emergency, with a very insecure and uncertain environment.

That means, I need to wak-up one of our english speaking attorneys in Santiago, that has advanced criminal experience, and convince them it is worth risking their life, their car, etc to venture out in to all that to some police station in hopes of finding someone that is sympathetic to the situation; or, worse, we have to start waking higher ranking government officials, and burn valuable political capital with our friends to intervene.

I will let your imagination fill in the blank as to how large that number is.

Now triple that.
Ah, the stupid price. That's what happens when you don't think the local laws apply to you. I hope you can make a lot of money during the protests, OP. Whoever goes to riots in another country needs to feel the financial and legal implications of their actions.
I'm NOT your lawyer, accountant or financial planner. All information at this post should be considered for your entertainment only. Consult a professional before making a decision regarding whatever topic was mentioned in this post.

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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by admin » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:13 pm

my father, in his criminal defense years, was asked one Sunday at church by someone how he could defend criminals.

my father said, "it is easy. I just charge more when they are guilty".

which really was sort of how he charged; and my mother never forgave him for that.

😝

actuelly I have not made any money related to this, yet; probably spooked off more than a few gringos in fact. I am sure that will change shortly.

Our attorney friends however around the country, are up to their eyeballs in work.

they may not raise the wages of workers in chile; but, they sure have provided endless job security to thousands of attorney's across the country.

For instance, I have one friend that is the head of the legal department for one of the large grocery chains. I don't think he has slept since last Friday, and has been running around santiago all night, every night, right in the middle of the worse if it.

Try to imagine how much beucracy is involved in burning one of those big supermarkets?

criminal reports, insurance claims, employees and unions to deal with, press releases, etc, etc, supplier contracts, hiring contractors to cleanup, rebuild, ....

judges, criminal attorneys, civil attorneys, on, and on.

There will be law suits pending about this in the courts, probably a decade from now.
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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by admin » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:20 pm

oh, and all that legal mess, might be double what it looks like.

There seems to be some debate in legal circles going on, if pinera executed the state emergency correctly under the constitution.

This whole "state of emergency" might be illegal; or, more exactly, might not exist at all legally.

That basically means the whole country, can turn around and sue the government for damages related to this.

You break it, you buy it, pinera.

You think the price tag for that metro is expensive for the government, just wait until they get the bill for an entire broken country.

:shock:
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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by admin » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:30 pm

a week ago, I would of said chile had way too many lawyers, and especially way too many poorly trained lawyers.

If it turns out the administration did not implement this state of emergency correctly, chile could actually run out of lawyers.

They might need to open emergency law schools, just to cleanup the mess from this emergency.
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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by Sr. El Puelche » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:24 pm

ADMIN------A question------If the state of emergency turns out not to be legal-------than would all the arrests be legal? Probably looting etc as a crime is a crime, but what about those arrested for just being at a protest or out after curfew?

####

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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by Dosedmonkey » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:22 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:38 am
I get it. My minor was in history and focused on human rights, dictatorships (including chile's), and especially holocaust history. It is a sensitive subject in Europe. Sometimes so sensitive, it is applied inappropriately or over applied, in a 'better safe than sorry sort' of way.
The Mexico story is really one of those once in a life time if your lucky things!

Nowardays young Europeans I meet are completely ignorant to world war 2 and the history, and think their rights are everything as they are sheltered from how dangerous the world is, because a civil war or world war is so far from their reality, despite the fact they only stopped doing nuclear fall out drills thirty forty years ago and my grand parents worked in war factories or fought at sea during the war. One actually went to the US to help reverse engineer the Jap torpeados.

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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by Donnybrook » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:02 pm

admin wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:45 pm
Donnybrook wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:41 pm
A very timely reminder to stay away from protests. Unfortunately, some FB pages which cater mainly to foreigners have foreigners calling others to join in the protests today. A link to this thread was removed as "off-topic" as were others telling people to stay away unless they want a free flight home. Many who do attend are going to experience a peaceful protest but South American style.
I posted the law. copy and past it in to the facebook pages.
I tried that. Deemed off topic and deleted. None so deaf as he who does not want to hear.

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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by admin » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:14 am

Sr. El Puelche wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:24 pm
ADMIN------A question------If the state of emergency turns out not to be legal-------than would all the arrests be legal? Probably looting etc as a crime is a crime, but what about those arrested for just being at a protest or out after curfew?

####
Yea, that as yet to be seen. Not exactly like there are a whole lot of law books or case law on this subject.

I would expect about 5 to 6 years of chasing their tails around the supreme court is going to be required to sort that out, in any clear manner. It may never be settled definitely.

But, my guess, is they will be ruled illegal, a civil rights violation, and the victims will be able to bring some sort of action for damages against the government. There are limits though how far they can go, do to various sovereign protections the state has. but, all that is way to early to tell.
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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by Dosedmonkey » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:42 am

admin wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:14 am
Sr. El Puelche wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:24 pm
ADMIN------A question------If the state of emergency turns out not to be legal-------than would all the arrests be legal? Probably looting etc as a crime is a crime, but what about those arrested for just being at a protest or out after curfew?

####
Yea, that as yet to be seen. Not exactly like there are a whole lot of law books or case law on this subject.

I would expect about 5 to 6 years of chasing their tails around the supreme court is going to be required to sort that out, in any clear manner. It may never be settled definitely.

But, my guess, is they will be ruled illegal, a civil rights violation, and the victims will be able to bring some sort of action for damages against the government. There are limits though how far they can go, do to various sovereign protections the state has. but, all that is way to early to tell.
The most recent parrelel I can think of is the Iraq War inquiry, whether British invasion of Iraq with USA was legal and truthful. It only started six years after the invasion and then took 7 years until its findings were published. So 13 years. At which point most people and well the world, had moved on.

Exxon Valdez wasn't so much delaying the court case for blame, but to what proportion of blame and cost. They appealed all the way up to 2008, the oil spill happened on 1989. So that's a full 19 years. I wonder how many lawyers made a huge some from that.

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Re: Foriegners, STAY AWAY FROM PROTESTS!!!! Obey the curfew

Post by admin » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:55 pm

They just deported a couple Argentina reporters that tried to enter at SCL without a work visa, and among other things, there were images of them with weapons in their social media.

Think there is more to this story. That smells like the PDI had them flagged prior to their arrival for some reason.

but, it sure serve as a warning that the government is being super sensitive to foriegners screwing around in the middle of this.
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