State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

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Space Cat
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:09 am

The new constitution referendum is finally announced in the middle of the night!! (see the details here)

The funny part? NO PIÑERA AROUND! Is he sleeping or eating pizza?

The congress was discussing it all day without any executive branch participation, and now Blumel (the interior minister) arrived to say some congratulatory words from the government's position.

Is it a parliamentary republic now?

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:04 am

Congress at 3:30 am.

Well dudes and dudettes we will be voting on it in April. Mandatory.
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One is to believe what isn't true;

the other is to refuse to believe what is true.

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41southchile
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:25 am

frozen-north wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:50 am
41southchile wrote:
frozen-north wrote:
41southchile wrote: While I certainly wouldn't admire him in that way or know anyone that would be condoning him, I can actually understand why people are praising him , in their feelings of impotence , despair, and whatever else.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=17223&start=2112#p195737
Your current rant reminded me that not long ago you 'could understand why people were praising Cobin' after the shooting.
Happy you recalled what I said then, ok then I will rephrase it for you.
I can understand why people are praising Cobin because they are scared that so many people are praising the destruction and violence .
And ok then, I can understand why people are supporting the violence because they are blinded by anger , and social media and blame everyone else for their shitty life and never look at their own behavior.
That a more balanced rant for you?
So, you say that people support the shooting of protesters because they are scared, and also add that they are scared because ' so many people are praising the destruction and violence'. Really?? Who exactly are doing the praising?

Then you say that you understand that people support the violence ' because they are blinded by anger , and social media and blame everyone else for their shitty life and never look at their own behavior'.

So, somehow you create a moral justification for the shooting of protesters 'blinded by anger', etc, etc. by scared right-wing vigilantes.

Do look at the first 1.19 minutes, dont skip it, businesses , homes destroyed , not in this video but I've seen a women driving school Van with toddlers coming home from Kindy attacked by criminals with rocks and pleading to be let through, they didnt and dont give a shit . While I certainly wouldn't admire him in that way or know anyone that would be condoning him, I can actually understand why people are praising him , in their feelings of impotence , despair, and whatever else.
Now all they see is someone getting all the attention and full force of the law after him while the criminals carry on destroying more and more stuff every day with impunity.
It's the friggin law of the jungle,m out there in those street situations , and those supporting him? Well rational people will sometimes react irrationally when under stress, maybe the support for him is an emotional outlet now their world has been completely turned upside down.
He will find, and has found a lot of support, ordinary people, and sadly in the current state we are in that's hardly surprising.
Let me guess, you also made up the story of the woman driving a school van, just as you made up the story about the 'old lady in Puerto Montt'.
I'm sorry , who are you?
Guess what you like.
I'm over you and cant be bothered with you.
Everyone else here I have been able to have good debates with and discussions with, haven't agreed with them all, but have been able to rational discussions without them putting words in my mouth or saying I make up things, unlike you.. , sad really.
All I see in your engagements is the same old tired style or debate (if you can call it that) with people you dont agree with, maybe practice on that, or don't, shall I make a guess why you engage like that? Na, not how I roll.
Enjoy your life , wherever you are (dont worry I wont make any guesses or assumptions , like seems to be your style) tbh its pretty tiresome for me.
I never really read anything when I see your name at the top of a post anymore , it's so predictable your style.
Everyone else on here, especially those that think differently from me, I appreciate their replays and what they have to say. I make mistakes, this is all new for me, but my idea is to read about others and their experiences, which I do, sometimes it changes my mind or opens it to another point I hadn't seen.
Then theres you, and your style of interaction. Guess theres always one.
Sod off as we say.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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41southchile
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 am

frozen-north wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:39 am
murf wrote:
About 10 years ago I was struck down with cancer,... The lower classes of Chile are struck by a cancer of sorts, sure, they may not hunger for food but as is inherent in all humans, they hunger for the chance for improvement and they have dreams and they hunger for the ability to achieve or fulfill their dreams.
41southchile wrote: I'm sorry to hear of your cancer.....BS BS BS .... but there are still plenty that get ahead ... Violence and intimidation of fellow citizens and destruction and theft of property is not a justified by what you say about a lack of hope
murf wrote: You are making the mistake of trying to conflate my desire to understand why this is happening with other people condoning of the actions.
No, he is not conflating anything, he is just being dishonest. He is using your answers as a platform to continue posting his rant, same as he did in the earlier exchange you had with him, and just has he was doing in the exchange with Space Cat.

So, you had cancer? Well, other people had other problems, but they managed to get ahead.
See my other post,
Sod off
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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41southchile
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:35 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:04 am
Congress at 3:30 am.

Well dudes and dudettes we will be voting on it in April. Mandatory.
Will it stop the looters and fires, 🤔?
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Darwin

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by El Ping » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:34 am

41southchile wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:35 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:04 am
Congress at 3:30 am.

Well dudes and dudettes we will be voting on it in April. Mandatory.
Will it stop the looters and fires, 🤔?
The government could give a nice little pressy to the population by taking IVA off food, that would be a nice little 19% drop in a large part of the people's
daily living expenses...especially for the poor.

Off to Frutillar this arvo.....may go for a swim... oh bugger its raining.......again.....

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:03 am

I am afraid no one really appreciates the can of worms this process opens. Chileans, as a culture, are not the greatest at thinking things through, to see what the possible consequences might be.

at best this turns in to some super shallow cosmetic rewrite of the current constitution; or, it is new, but we spend the next 100 years trying to fix all the problems and patch up all the holes in it. which, I guess, pretty much is how any constitution works. some just need more fixing than others.

at worse, the whole process implodes under monumental bureaucratic political in fighting.

at the very very worse, they write a half baked, broken constitution, that sends the country spiralling in to a civil war.

That is, someone is finally forced to sort this mess out by shear force; and whole lot of people die.

remember, you don't hear a whole lot about constitutions that have failed through history; just the ones that have not failed, yet.
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Space Cat
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:38 am

There's very little chance that a group of people who checks and balances each other will do worse than Jaime Guzmán. Lots of Europeans countries rewrote their constitutions and they do fine.

For example, Spain did it in 3 years after Franco's death and the country was much more polarized than Chile in 2019.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by El Ping » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 am

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:48 pm
The Carabineros are on the edge. Some fantastic leadership in this video.

https://twitter.com/LordHeller2022/stat ... 76160?s=20
Really?
Small crowd milling around outside Carabineros offices.... some dick throws a rock.... carabineros wander outside.... small crowd runs away.... helado vendor peddles past on his tricycle.......

I must say they can run fast.....

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:43 am

78% of the people arrested had at least one previous arrest.

51% had over 5 previous arrests

https://www.latercera.com/nacional/noti ... as/901881/
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by mem » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:02 am

admin wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:43 am
78% of the people arrested had at least one previous arrest.

51% had over 5 previous arrests

https://www.latercera.com/nacional/noti ... as/901881/
Ah...the lightbulbs are coming on. The word judicial was even in the article! :D

3 strikes and your out...(after third serious crime you get to stay in jail)...could actually keep these serial offenders from crapping on chile and its population over and over again

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by cali_chile48 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:01 am

I am afraid no one really appreciates the can of worms this process opens. Chileans, as a culture, are not the greatest at thinking things through, to see what the possible consequences might be.
It's really going to depend on how much these people in leadership positions really love the Republic of Chile. That goes for the right and the left and the military folks and the mayors and whoever is finally selected to do to re-write. Everyone is going to have to make compromises. If they take their time and do a good job, any further damage can be minimized. It is possible.

While they are in this process, it's pretty important to get the arsonists locked up tight. How to do that? It seems simple enough....but in Chile simple things can be extraordinarily complicated.

Locked