State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

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Space Cat
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:37 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:09 pm
As was explained by some insider info, you can't succeed at maintaining law and order by perfect means, when you have 20 Carabineros against 300 looters in a small town. Or in the case of the protestors 60, maybe 100 GOPE against thousands of violent protestors, who are covering up looting in the crowd. They only have tear gas and rubber bullets. The latter of which they never used before as tear gas was enough. They do a fantastic job running toward the danger.

...
I didn't say "completely failed". The whole mess would be prevented if they didn't try it to repress it violently in the first place. Looting started a few days later than protests.

Curiously, the revolution in Ukraine started because of the similar event: the oligarch president sent special forces to beat a relatively small group of protesting students. It caused a really big protest and he tried to suppress it with force again, attracting even more support to the protestors.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:40 pm

thus, back to my idea about installing cell phone jammers wherever they congregate in any numbers. I could probably jam plaza itiala for $1000.

they might hang out for a little bit, but eventually they would need an internet fix.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:42 pm

at the same time you high Jack their phone signal, and record their cell chip id.

no one has to loose an eye. just their cellphone signal.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:51 pm

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:24 pm
The problem with being hyper connected is you just absorb the hyper connected people's informatoon, propoganda or spurious in explained short clips with captions. And don't actually know the history, about the world or how things really work, which is best learn front history I think... A dangerous mix, which yes makes them angry quicker, and they get fed ideas they can make a difference and if that involves violence it doesn't matter. When in reality you learn how you do things is as important as what your doing.
"How things really work" is a relative knowledge. In the past things "worked" with kings, tsars and emperors on top but then they got enough people angry even without WhatsApp memes. I personally studied history but still believe that the protests are good for the country and should go on (but I do not support damaging any kind of property and attacking cops even when they are violent themselves).

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:34 pm

Space Cat wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:40 pm
And here we get bystanders' videos of baton gauntlets for women leaving the protests through some alley.
Stumbled upon this video again:
https://www.facebook.com/isabelandrea.o ... 452000939/

Pure power trip of multiple cops at once. Or maybe they believe that water bottles are for Molotovs?

How many more "casos aislados" like this weren't captured on video?

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:42 pm

I've detected a real shift in a few comments and opinions in the last couple of days, as attitudes have hardened about the destruction and looting and vandalism that has gone on (and continues to). I've heard from people who have dropped out of whatsApp groups as they have begun calling for militias and vigilantes to "deal with" flaites, calling for a hard right type to come save Chile, sharing videos of police executions in Phillipines and Brazil etc.
Even the comments on newspapers are more divisive than normal. Not saying it's a majority, but there is definitely a hard core right that are making more noises, which is inevitable I guess when you look at the country's history.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Space Cat » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 pm

I've seen those people before too: they always write the same shit under crime-related news like portonazos. If even government-friendly Cadem says 72% support protests, I doubt that public opinion has changed much. The yellow jacket movement also stays tiny.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by frozen-north » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:59 pm

Space Cat wrote:
And this is without mentioning that modern economies are much more hostile for young people than they were 20-30 years ago.
I don't think that 'modern economies are much more hostile for young people than they were 20-30 years ago'. I believe some are just more aware of the reality, and the easier access to information can help confirm that there are many lies being told.

cali_chile48 wrote:
I guess what I really trying to say is that teenagers are from the "i-generation", they can generally be characterized as less patient and less attentive than previous generations, and this is a factor in their decision to fight with the police.
The protests in Chile are not only supported by teenagers. Even if those engaged in fights with the police are only teens, that does not take away the fact that the protests are multi-generational.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:49 am

41southchile wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:42 pm
I've detected a real shift in a few comments and opinions in the last couple of days, as attitudes have hardened about the destruction and looting and vandalism that has gone on (and continues to). I've heard from people who have dropped out of whatsApp groups as they have begun calling for militias and vigilantes to "deal with" flaites, calling for a hard right type to come save Chile, sharing videos of police executions in Phillipines and Brazil etc.
Even the comments on newspapers are more divisive than normal. Not saying it's a majority, but there is definitely a hard core right that are making more noises, which is inevitable I guess when you look at the country's history.
no there is definitely a shift; people are simply sick of the b.s. interruption to their lives, even if they broadly support the social issues.

The place to watch, is the interviews with the people trying to get to work in the morning on the buses or metro. those are not the 1% standing in line bitching.

The big question mark will be what happens come vacation season. Does the traditional exudes from Santiago to the south occur this year; or, are people going to feel too insecure to leave their homes and property unguarded?

the tradional summer vacation to southern chile is a very under appreciated wealth redistribution phenomenon in chile. billions of pesos get pushed from the central region on to all sorts of rural nooks and crannies of southern chile, as at least 30 to 40% of Santiago leaves for a month per year with the entire family.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:14 am

Well I talked to someone yesterday in the Salmon industry, actually 2 people , looking like up to 4000 jobs could be lost in Quellon in Chiloe as they continue to block the roads and the corporations shift the processing to other areas and mothball that plant. Chao pescado is right.
"Yeah that will show them, block the roads , we the people will teach them a lesson"
Oh maybe tourism will save Chiloe? oh wait.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by cali_chile48 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:18 am

The protest organizers certainly have some legitimate gripes, but they should come up with different ways of protesting that don't interrupt general commerce.....maybe they should take some lessons from Gandhi and King....sit-ins at city hall or regional offices, for example, perhaps calling for boycotts of specific products or businesses....but the Chilean way is to burn tires in the road. Really stupid sometimes.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:35 am

cali_chile48 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:18 am
The protest organizers certainly have some legitimate gripes, but they should come up with different ways of protesting that don't interrupt general commerce.....maybe they should take some lessons from Gandhi and King....sit-ins at city hall or regional offices, for example, perhaps calling for boycotts of specific products or businesses....but the Chilean way is to burn tires in the road. Really stupid sometimes.
They do have legitimate gripes but as with everything here not many people can comprehend the notion of ALL actions have consequences, or not sure if it's that or they are completely ignorant of their surroundings and how things are connected. So many are just oblivious and in their own little worlds. This movement is kind of paradoxical, it's like in theory they are all together, but at the same time it's all about the individual who is generally oblivious to so many things around them.
Peaceful protests like Ghandi or King require a level of understanding not generally found in your average tire burner in Chile, boycotts require solidarity and a greater level of understanding amongst everyone, as with many things here lack of education amongst other things means these protesters are not even close to those levels of strategy.
I am still trying to work out my theory on that one, so it's open for criticisms.
“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”

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