State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

National Crisis, Emergencies, and Natural Disasters in Chile; including the experiences of Chile Forum Members have shared in current and in past crisis, as they have assisted each other and Chile. Things will always go wrong. It is how you deal with it that counts, and that starts with information. When things go wrong, this is the place to come to exchange information about what is going on in Chile.
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admin
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:26 pm

needwaterandpeace wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:47 am
needwaterandpeace wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:29 am
admin wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:28 am
o.k., people i am clamping down on the bullshit. no more disrupting the forum function.

if you troll you loose your account.

if you fill this thread with alien conspiracy theory crap, I am going delete your posts. keep doing it, and loose your account.
Admin, I don't want to disrupt forum function. But you require 1 year membership and 200 posts to use the Patio. I only have maybe 7+ months, and just under 100 posts. So, you have me effectively gagged.

If you want this thread tinfoil free, would you please lower the Patio limit to 6 months, and 70 posts, or something? Or give me some place I can start a new thread? Because I don't want to bug you (and I actually agree with maybe 99%+ of what you say), but cannot even chime in for threat of getting banned.

Please give me an alternative solution.
Admin, what about "Chile's Believe it or Not?" You already have a thread there, "Crazy rumors and conspiracy theories chileans love."

Any objection to posting tinfoil to CBION? (Or where can I post?)
no!

for the last time.

We have hundreds of people reading this forum that are scarred, confused, or just trying to collect some information about what is going on in chile right now so they can make decisions.

At some other time, I might have let a dedicate thread go for fun. but not now. not in middle of a national crisis.

I am keeping an extremely tight leash on the bullshit conspiracy theories. I have, and will delete any post or account that tries to undermine the primary function of this site: to get accurate information out to foreigners about Chile.

There is a Whole World Wide Web out there. Go shit on someone else's web site.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:28 pm

well, we seemed to have gotten through a relatively calm night across the country.

looks like some looting, a few fires, but overall better than last week at this time.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:34 pm

pinera just announced they are moving the cop25 to madrid.

estimates damages to the tourism industry for cop25 and apec, over $40 million dollars.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:49 pm

so, it seems pretty much the only ones supporting a new constitution is the commies in congress.

the number of thumbs up on this comment in emol.cl although hardly scientific, is probably a pretty good indicator that the support for it right now is pretty thin.

Screenshot_20191031-124403_Brave.jpg

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... risis.html

I might point out, that this is pretty much the exact same congress that bachelet, after she tried to organize the writing a new constitution, concluded, "not now, not with this Congress" and abandoned the project.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 pm

in the few mins it took me to make that post, it got 25 additional clicks.

typically a post on emol might get 1 or 2, many get none.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by lost gringo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:10 pm

Looks like the rest of the world is waking up to the situation in Chile. Decent article too, for Yahoo.

A lot of good pictures in this link:

https://news.yahoo.com/photos-new-prote ... 20141.html
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by hlf2888 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:20 pm

mem wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:44 pm
My wife was talking to a doctor that came here from Venezuela. Doc was spooked saying VZ started out "just like this"

As if I wasn't concerned enough as it is...
I asked my friend, also a doctor from Venezuela, if she saw similarities. She said she does not see the influence of China and Russia or the narco gangs here, as she did in Venezuela, nor the emergence of a charismatic Chavez type. Hmm, are those influences better hidden here?

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by cali_chile48 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:42 pm

I learned new word today....CABILDO. Or, more correctly CABILDO ABIERTO. I am still learning about this political mechanism in Chile that could essentially bypass Congress and the Executive branch and call for referendums on various topics, like AFP, minimum wage, health care etc. The process starts with local meetings (like town halls), then the best ideas are sent up to regional and finally national level consideration. It seems to be similar to the process of getting Propositions passed in California. That´s the best parallel I have been able to make so far.

The cabildos are starting to get organized now. It's going to be very interesting to see how it works out. It isn't technology dependent, but obviously the internet and social media services will play an important role, especially for the under 30's. If the cabildos get popular support, which seems likely given the fact that the government as currently constituted has to be considered a colossal failure and very few people believe that the national congress and the president are really capable of responding to the current crisis.

I was working in the garden earlier today (re-stringing a chain link fence, if you must know), and thinking about how ignorant I am of the of the Chilean constitution, especially the process for amending it or perhaps writing a new one. I have a lot of questions about what the current constitution contains that many people find so objectionable...i've heard stuff about guarantees for big pensions for Catholic priests and high ranking military offcials. Really? in the constitution? I don't know if these complaints are valid, nor do I understand the historical context of the current constitution.

When I walked back into the house to refill my coffee cup, my gf was chatting about the cabildos.....so I had to stop and figure it out a bit. The Chileans I am close to are quite excited and hopeful about this development. I am observing and trying to keep myself informed. There is a cabildo being organized near my home. I wouldn't normally consider getting involved....but since I am deeply invested in this country after 10 years, and the stakes are pretty high, and the Chilean people seem highly motivated now to force some reform, and this mechanism seems more effective than the gridlock in congress....I might just go to a meeting or two.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by mem » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:03 pm

hlf2888 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:20 pm
mem wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:44 pm
My wife was talking to a doctor that came here from Venezuela. Doc was spooked saying VZ started out "just like this"

As if I wasn't concerned enough as it is...
I asked my friend, also a doctor from Venezuela, if she saw similarities. She said she does not see the influence of China and Russia or the narco gangs here, as she did in Venezuela, nor the emergence of a charismatic Chavez type. Hmm, are those influences better hidden here?
I think the comments from the VZ doc my wife was talking to reflected an observation of symptoms in terms of the display and behavior of the looters and burners versus a comment on the root cause or influences.

I still have some hope that Chile can exit these woods without a descent into VZhood. But it critically involves the bottom 30% of the country seeing the economic ramifications and then being moved to change their behavior if it involves criminal activity.

one can be consoled knowing that people that fled VZ for Chile are still going to be raw and hypersensitive to anything that even remotely bears similarity to what they went through. Not to be ignored, but understood in the context of where the fear is coming from.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:11 pm

cali_chile48 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:42 pm
Chilean people seem highly motivated now to force some reform, and this mechanism seems more effective than the gridlock in congress....I might just go to a meeting or two.
Please do, and keep us informed.
There are mechanisms in place already to mandate reforms. They're called elections. And Piñera won the last presidential elections with a decent majority against Alejandro Guillier. Unfortunately, since day1, the Opposition has virtually refused to work with the legitimately elected government, even in circumstances where national interests are involved, as has been made quite plain over the last week. Until now, Chilean politics were based on consensus, but not any more. That's where the gridlock is coming from. And here's the reason why:
.
Luis Larraín Elusión Constitucional y movilización social .png
.
https://ellibero.cl/opinion/luis-larrai ... on-social/
Bienvenidos a Chaqueteo City.

Après moi, le déluge

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by mem » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:33 pm

cali_chile48 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:42 pm
I learned new word today....CABILDO. Or, more correctly CABILDO ABIERTO. I am still learning about this political mechanism in Chile that could essentially bypass Congress and the Executive branch and call for referendums on various topics, like AFP, minimum wage, health care etc. The process starts with local meetings (like town halls), then the best ideas are sent up to regional and finally national level consideration. It seems to be similar to the process of getting Propositions passed in California. That´s the best parallel I have been able to make so far.

The cabildos are starting to get organized now. It's going to be very interesting to see how it works out. It isn't technology dependent, but obviously the internet and social media services will play an important role, especially for the under 30's. If the cabildos get popular support, which seems likely given the fact that the government as currently constituted has to be considered a colossal failure and very few people believe that the national congress and the president are really capable of responding to the current crisis.

I was working in the garden earlier today (re-stringing a chain link fence, if you must know), and thinking about how ignorant I am of the of the Chilean constitution, especially the process for amending it or perhaps writing a new one. I have a lot of questions about what the current constitution contains that many people find so objectionable...i've heard stuff about guarantees for big pensions for Catholic priests and high ranking military offcials. Really? in the constitution? I don't know if these complaints are valid, nor do I understand the historical context of the current constitution.

When I walked back into the house to refill my coffee cup, my gf was chatting about the cabildos.....so I had to stop and figure it out a bit. The Chileans I am close to are quite excited and hopeful about this development. I am observing and trying to keep myself informed. There is a cabildo being organized near my home. I wouldn't normally consider getting involved....but since I am deeply invested in this country after 10 years, and the stakes are pretty high, and the Chilean people seem highly motivated now to force some reform, and this mechanism seems more effective than the gridlock in congress....I might just go to a meeting or two.
Doesn't make sense or a key piece is missing...who exactly is going to "consider it at the national level" who is not congress, executive, or judicial?

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by cali_chile48 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:49 pm

I asked the same question, and didn't get a clear answer. I am still trying to understand it myself.

I am aware that it might be a process that could usurped by extremists of one sort or another. I am also aware that it might an entirely futile exercise, since the legal basis for this process doesn't seem to be well defined. But it could still be a useful process for the people to participate in producing documents that could inform and/or guide future policy.

As for congressional gridlock....it's seems to be the norm....look at the US, the UK, Chile....etc. The spirit of cooperation is absent all around.

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