State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 pm

I just had another thought.

for all the millions of cameras on the streets filming everything everywhere this weekend (cellphone, security cameras, tv cameras, body cameras, etc), we as yet to have any authenticated images of dead bodies. the one guy they were sure was killed by the military, turned out to be alive and just shot. he is in a hospital.

There is even a strange lack of "fake" videos of bodies, considering all the fake videos of everything else going around on social media.

There are probably more people killed on a normal Saturday night from just normal drunken stupidity, than have died this weekend; even including the Darwin award winners in the fires, and other protest related activities.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:50 pm

Space Cat wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:58 pm
I’ve read that the protests are not covered at all in Russia to not give Russians bad ideas (they got a retirement age raise recently). I think this is true because our parents still haven’t made worried calls to ask if we are in danger.
I had the same experience today. So far, my sister in Arizona is the only one who actually noticed on her own. I had to repeat it a couple times to everyone else, before they understood something was really happening.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:14 am

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:50 pm
Space Cat wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:58 pm
I’ve read that the protests are not covered at all in Russia to not give Russians bad ideas (they got a retirement age raise recently). I think this is true because our parents still haven’t made worried calls to ask if we are in danger.
I had the same experience today. So far, my sister in Arizona is the only one who actually noticed on her own. I had to repeat it a couple times to everyone else, before they understood something was really happening.
Unlike the 2010 quake, I have not received one inquiry from my extended family in the States. I know they know I am probably prepared for shit like this but I bet they would be shocked to learn I've been under police/military curfew for the past three nights and San Antonio was damaged and some places sacked in the past three days. I rather they don't know so they don't worry as there is enough to worry about in the States.

I have already decided to stick it out no matter El P's recos. This place gave me a new reason to life and I now have a Chile family with even a name legacy, I will not be abandoning them. And I am getting old. Despite extended family in the States, personally, there is nothing for me there. I'd rather die fighting for my grandkids future and soothing my wife's fears than run away to a dull sterile life in the States which may be in for its own hell in a short while.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by at46 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:22 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:35 pm
at46 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:25 pm
It was the rash new American CEO of Maersk who killed the San Antonio container plant in the first big hit on the newly elected Pinera.
Can you point me to that info! CUT, PC were running the sindicato egging them on to do more and more arrogant and violent stuff similar to the portuarios and miners. Many workers were not experienced in the ways of the nasty world having been homemakers and such trained literally from scratch by the company earning an above market wage with good benefits.
Sean S. Fitzgerald appointed CEO of MCI effective Jan 1st, 2018. The closure of the San Antonio plant announced on Jun 15th, 2018. Given his China background it's easy to see why he'd want to consolidate there and get rid of the far flung and troublesome Chilean operation. Although just how troublesome was it given that MCI actually returned to profitability a year prior? As a graduate of US Military Academy I guess he's pretty different from the Danish socialist softie before him. But the removal of the Danish was unexpected and the appointment of the American with extensive China background clearly marked a change of strategy. My feeling is they were waiting for Pinera to take office hoping to get something from him but when that didn't materialize kicking him on the way out with the rash announcement was the least they could do to pay him back. https://shippingwatch.com/suppliers/article9998403.ece

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:28 am

at46 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:22 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:35 pm
at46 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:25 pm
It was the rash new American CEO of Maersk who killed the San Antonio container plant in the first big hit on the newly elected Pinera.
Can you point me to that info! CUT, PC were running the sindicato egging them on to do more and more arrogant and violent stuff similar to the portuarios and miners. Many workers were not experienced in the ways of the nasty world having been homemakers and such trained literally from scratch by the company earning an above market wage with good benefits.
Sean S. Fitzgerald appointed CEO of MCI effective Jan 1st, 2018. The closure of the San Antonio plant announced on Jun 15th, 2018. Given his China background it's easy to see why he'd want to consolidate there and get rid of the far flung and troublesome Chilean operation. Although just how troublesome was it given that MCI actually returned to profitability a year prior? As a graduate of US Military Academy I guess he's pretty different from the Danish socialist softie before him. But the removal of the Danish was unexpected and the appointment of the American with extensive China background clearly marked a change of strategy. My feeling is they were waiting for Pinera to take office hoping to get something from him but when that didn't materialize kicking him on the way out with the rash announcement was the least they could do to pay him back. https://shippingwatch.com/suppliers/article9998403.ece
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:25 am

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 pm
I just had another thought.

for all the millions of cameras on the streets filming everything everywhere this weekend (cellphone, security cameras, tv cameras, body cameras, etc), we as yet to have any authenticated images of dead bodies. the one guy they were sure was killed by the military, turned out to be alive and just shot. he is in a hospital.

There is even a strange lack of "fake" videos of bodies, considering all the fake videos of everything else going around on social media.

There are probably more people killed on a normal Saturday night from just normal drunken stupidity, than have died this weekend; even including the Darwin award winners in the fires, and other protest related activities.
Most the deaths are by arson at night. Charred bodies unidentified. Secondly cerfew means not many cameras at night.

Lots of footage of looting and violent attacks by some of the least desirables in Chilean society, even Chillan hospital and some condominio being attacked and overan.

There was one news article on Sky news, third from top, for one day. I have been following on Chilean news websites and Twitter. A lot of false information from anarchist/communist kids on twitter.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by Dosedmonkey » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:28 am

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:34 pm
well, as scary as this all sounds, everyone keep the security situation in perspective.

unless you are activly looking for trouble, in say central Santiago, a protest, or looking to play chicken with the military, chile is still safer than 90% of the planet. at least latin america.

I took the extreme security measure last night of, closing my gate. i had not closed it in over a year. I could not even remember what i did with the key. so i sort of made it looked locked.

the irony is, after this is over, if we crunch the crime stats, we will probably see normal crime dropped. the ladrons had bigger fish to fry, like robbing a department store. why rob a house, when you can get a new in the box big screen at your local mall?

there has not been so many police on the street, ever. probably not even during the dictatorship.

every place i have lived or travelled in latin america was way more dangerous, on a normal day.
Any where in Santiago, not just Centro is pretty dangerous this last week. My relatives in Independencia has witnessed looting and military chasing the undesirables every where. The military has saved them from having their street burnt.

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:11 am

well, just looking at the morning reports, looks like Santiago was relatively calm last night.

Then also, i suppose even the rioters and looters need sleep. they can only keep that up for so many nights in a row.

seems all the action was outside of Santiago. still looking around at those reports.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:22 am

ooo, the airport is a mess.

People sleeping at the airport, both those that need to catch a flight, but those that arrived and can not leave the airport because there is no transportation. They have setup cots for people to sleep.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by passport » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:54 am

From Herman Hesse, THE GLASS BEAD GAME, published 1946, a prophetic novel referring to a sub-society of learnedness and acculturation (Castalia) established in the mid 21st century.

Contextually different from our scene, yes. And yet...

“Let me return from history and draw my conclusion. What all this means to us at the present time is this: Our system has already passed its flowering. Some time ago it reached that summit of blessedness which the mysterious game of world history sometimes allows to things beautiful and desirable in themselves. We are on the downward slope. Our course may possibly stretch out for a very long time, but in any case nothing finer, more beautiful, and more desirable than what we have already had can henceforth be expected. The road leads downhill. Historically we are, I believe, ripe for dismantling. And there is no doubt that such will be our fate, not today or tomorrow, but the day after tomorrow. I do not draw this conclusion from any excessively
moralistic estimate of our accomplishments and our abilities; I draw it far more from the movements which I see already on the way in the outside world. Critical times are approaching; the omens can be sensed everywhere; the world is once again about to shift its center of gravity. Displacements of power are in the offing. They will not take place without war and violence. From the Far East comes a threat not only to peace, but to life and liberty. Even if our country remains politically neutral, even if our whole nation unanimously abides by tradition (which is not the case) and attempts to remain faithful to Castalian ideals, that will be in vain. Some of our representatives in Parliament are already saying that Castalia is a rather expensive luxury for our country. The country may very soon be forced into serious rearmament—armaments for defensive purposes only, of course—and great economies will be necessary. In spite of the government’s benevolent disposition toward us, much of the economizing will strike us directly. We are proud that our Order and the cultural continuity it provides have cost the country as little as they have. In comparison with other ages, especially the early period of the Feuilletonistic Age with its lavishly endowed universities, its innumerable consultants and opulent institutes, this toll is really not large. It is infinitesimal compared with the sums consumed for war and armaments during the century of wars. But before too long this kind of armament may once again be the supreme necessity; the generals will again dominate Parliament; and if the people are confronted with the choice of sacrificing Castalia or exposing themselves to the danger of war and destruction, we know how they will choose. Undoubtedly a bellicose ideology will burgeon. The rash of propaganda will affect youth in particular. Then scholars and scholarship, Latin and mathematics, education and culture, will be considered worth their salt only to the extent that they can serve the ends of war. The wave is already gathering; one day it will wash us away. Perhaps that will be as it should be. But for the present, my revered colleagues, we still possess that limited freedom of decision and action which is the human prerogative and which makes world history the history of mankind. We may still choose, in proportion to our understanding of events, in proportion to our alertness and our courage. We can, if we will, close our eyes, for the danger is still fairly far away. Probably we who are Magisters today will be able to complete our terms of office in peace and lie down to die in peace before the danger comes so close that it is visible to all. But for me, and no doubt for others like me, such peace could not be had with a clear conscience. I would rather not continue to administer my office in peace and play Glass Bead Games, contented that the coming upheavals will probably find me no longer alive. Rather, it seems to me urgent to recollect that we too, nonpolitical though we are, belong to world history and help to make it. Therefore I said at the beginning of this memorandum that my competence as Magister Ludi is compromised, since I cannot keep my mind from dwelling anxiously upon the future danger. I do not allow myself to imagine what form the disaster might assume for us and for me. But I cannot close my mind to the question: What have we and what have I to do in order to meet the danger? Permit me to say a few words more about this.

I am not inclined to urge Plato’s thesis that the scholar, or rather the sage, ought to rule the state. The world was younger in his time. And Plato, although the founder of a sort of Castalia, was by no means a Castalian. He was a born aristocrat, of royal descent. Granted, we too are aristocrats and form a nobility, but one of the mind, not the blood. I do not believe that man will ever succeed in breeding a hereditary nobility that is at the same time an intellectual nobility. That would be the ideal aristocracy, but it remains a dream. We Castalians are not suited for ruling, for all that we are civilized and highly intelligent people. If we had to govern we would not do it with the force and naïveté that the genuine ruler needs. Moreover, our proper field and real concern, cultivation of an exemplary cultural life, would be quickly neglected. Ruling does not require qualities of stupidity and coarseness, as conceited intellectuals sometimes think. But it does require wholehearted delight in extraverted activity, a bent for identifying oneself with outward goals, and of course also a certain swiftness and lack of scruple about the choice of ways to attain success. And these are traits that a scholar—for we do not wish to call ourselves sages—may not have and does not have, because for us contemplation is more important than action, and in the choice of ways to attain our goals we have learned to be as scrupulous and wary as is humanly possible. Therefore it is not our business to rule and not our business to engage in politics. We are specialists in examining, analyzing, and measuring. We are the guardians and constant verifiers of all alphabets, multiplication tables, and methods. We are the bureaus of standards fro cultural weights and measures. Granted we are many other things also. In some circumstances we can also be innovators, discoverers, adventurers, conquerors, and reinterpreters. But our first and most important function, the reason the people need us and keep us, is to preserve the purity of all sources of knowledge. In trade, in politics, and what have you, turning an X into a Y may occasionally prove to be a stroke of genius; but never with us.
In former ages, during the wars and upheavals of so-called periods of “grandeur,” intellectuals were sometimes urged to throw themselves into politics. This was particularly the case during the late Feuilletonistic Age.
That age went even further in its demands, for it insisted that Mind itself must serve politics or the military. Just as the church bells were being melted down for cannon, as hapless schoolboys were drawn on to fill the ranks of the decimated troops, so Mind itself was to be harnessed and consumed as one of the materials of war.
Naturally we could not accept this demand. In emergencies a scholar might be called from his lectern or his desk and made into a soldier. In some circumstances he might volunteer for such service. In a country exhausted by war the scholar must restrict himself in all material things, even to the point of sheer starvation. Surely all this is taken for granted. The higher a person’s cultivation, the greater the privileges he has enjoyed, the greater must be his sacrifices in case of need. We hope that every Castalian would recognize this as a matter of course, if the time should come. But although we are prepared to sacrifice our well-being, our comfort, and our lives to the people, when danger threatens, that does not mean that we are ready to sacrifice Mind itself, the tradition and morality of our spiritual life, to the demands of the hour, of the people, or of the generals. He would be a coward who withdrew from the challenges, sacrifices, and dangers his people had to endure. But he would be no less a coward and traitor who betrayed the principles of the life of the mind to material interests—who, for example, left the decision on the product of two times two to the rulers. It is treason to sacrifice love of truth, intellectual honesty, loyalty to the laws and methods of the mind, to any other interests, including those of one’s country. Whenever propaganda and the conflict of interests threatens to devalue, distort, and do violence to truth as it has already done to individuals, to language, to the arts, and to everything else that is organic and highly cultivated, then it is our duty to resist and save the truth, or rather the striving for truth, since that is the supreme article in our creed. The scholar who knowingly speaks, writes, or teaches falsehood, who knowingly supports lies and deceptions, not only violates organic principles. He also, no matter how things may seem at the given moment, does his people a grave disservice. He corrupts its air and soil, its food and drink; he poisons its thinking and its laws, and he gives aid and comfort to all the hostile, evil forces that threaten the nation with annihilation. The Castalian, therefore, should not become a politician. If need be, he must sacrifice his person, but never his fealty to the life of the mind. The mind of man is beneficent and noble only when it obeys truth. As soon as it betrays truth, as soon as it ceases to revere truth, as soon as it sells out, it becomes intensely diabolical. Then it becomes far worse than instinctual bestiality, which always retains something of the innocence of nature...”

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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by 41southchile » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:41 am

Dosedmonkey wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:25 am
admin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 pm
I just had another thought.

for all the millions of cameras on the streets filming everything everywhere this weekend (cellphone, security cameras, tv cameras, body cameras, etc), we as yet to have any authenticated images of dead bodies. the one guy they were sure was killed by the military, turned out to be alive and just shot. he is in a hospital.

There is even a strange lack of "fake" videos of bodies, considering all the fake videos of everything else going around on social media.

There are probably more people killed on a normal Saturday night from just normal drunken stupidity, than have died this weekend; even including the Darwin award winners in the fires, and other protest related activities.
Most the deaths are by arson at night. Charred bodies unidentified. Secondly cerfew means not many cameras at night.

Lots of footage of looting and violent attacks by some of the least desirables in Chilean society, even Chillan hospital and some condominio being attacked and overan.

There was one news article on Sky news, third from top, for one day. I have been following on Chilean news websites and Twitter. A lot of false information from anarchist/communist kids on twitter.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that just because the cameras didn't show it doesn't mean there are not multiple deaths, at least three overnight by the sounds of it.
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Re: State of emergency and curfews, October 2019

Post by admin » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:37 am

41southchile wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:41 am
Dosedmonkey wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:25 am
admin wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:39 pm
I just had another thought.

for all the millions of cameras on the streets filming everything everywhere this weekend (cellphone, security cameras, tv cameras, body cameras, etc), we as yet to have any authenticated images of dead bodies. the one guy they were sure was killed by the military, turned out to be alive and just shot. he is in a hospital.

There is even a strange lack of "fake" videos of bodies, considering all the fake videos of everything else going around on social media.

There are probably more people killed on a normal Saturday night from just normal drunken stupidity, than have died this weekend; even including the Darwin award winners in the fires, and other protest related activities.
Most the deaths are by arson at night. Charred bodies unidentified. Secondly cerfew means not many cameras at night.

Lots of footage of looting and violent attacks by some of the least desirables in Chilean society, even Chillan hospital and some condominio being attacked and overan.

There was one news article on Sky news, third from top, for one day. I have been following on Chilean news websites and Twitter. A lot of false information from anarchist/communist kids on twitter.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that just because the cameras didn't show it doesn't mean there are not multiple deaths, at least three overnight by the sounds of it.
that is exactly my point. for all of the shooting, for all the guns on the streets, the number of people dead is pretty none-existent. If the military or police, as the left want to frame them, are out to murder, using live rounds, their would be a whole lot more dead bodies to match the number of shots.

last night the protesters were showing these casings to a news crew as supposed evidence they were shooting protesters. of course most chileans no shit about guns (and that is a good thing). They were obviously blank rifle rounds and rubber bullet shells from a 12 gauge.

you would have seens of hdozens wounded and dead streaming in to hospitals, etc. there is no way, chileans would not be flooding airwaves with thousands of videos and photos; and, the police and the military knows it.

now, how long that last? how long before the police and military can keep their cool?

hundreds of grunt soliders, same age as the protesters, out on the street night after night, being confronted and harassed by the protesters?

that is historically a very very bad mix. the minister of health the other day, was begging the protesters do not confront the military. they are not the police. they do not have the same training.

yesterday, we started seeing more and more heavy handed reaction by the military. we also seen a lot more protesters, surrounded by a dozen friends with cameras, actively looking to provoke the soldiers. watched a guy throw a full on right hook at a soldier, trying to get him to shoot him.
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