Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

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gringalais
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Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by gringalais » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:56 pm

I meet the residency requirements for the Carta de Nacionalización and I would like to apply since it would make traveling in South America easier. However, I am worried about being rejected because of not making enough money. I am not sure if I should wait and hopefully my income will be higher in 6 months or a year. Does anyone know how important this is and if there is some minimum requirement for income?

Up until last year, I had a long-term freelance situation that came to an end. I was making quite good money at this. Unfortunately, I am no longer doing that. I am doing a variety of other freelance things these days. Things are going relatively well, people are recommending me to other people and I have money coming in. I write boletas for everything, even when the client doesn't ask for one. A lot of work is with companies for which it is a business expense so they definitely want the boleta. Still, I am making less than I was before and it is erratic. I see that they also want a copy of your degrees. I have an MA and BA.

My husband is Chilean. He's a professional and earns a good salary in a government job. Does this help my case at all? He is of the mind I should just go ahead apply. He remembers some interviews on TV a while back with people from Peru, Colombia, etc. that seemed to be in jobs that didn't pay that much.

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T_ROBO
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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by T_ROBO » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:16 pm

gringalais wrote:I meet the residency requirements for the Carta de Nacionalización and I would like to apply
Does it mean you will give up your US citizenship?
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carica
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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by carica » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:41 am

You don't have to give up your US citizenship AFAIK. Taking on another nationality does not cancel out your US nationality in practice. On paper, though, it should. From the research I've done, in practice, in order to give up your US citizenship you must formally renounce it and go through the paperwork.

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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by T_ROBO » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:20 am

carica wrote:You don't have to give up your US citizenship AFAIK. Taking on another nationality does not cancel out your US nationality in practice. On paper, though, it should. From the research I've done, in practice, in order to give up your US citizenship you must formally renounce it and go through the paperwork.
The way I understood, there is an approved list of countries that the US allows dual citizenship. Chile is not in this list. If one "actively" applies for citizenship of any country outside this list, and if the State Department "finds out," they will strip off the US citizenship of that person. However, if one is offered citizenship without applying (there is a case for this scenario in the Chile law), then, dual citizenship is legally acceptable (with the US law).
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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by admin » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:41 am

That is an old wives tale. The U.S. supreme court has ruled over and over again that the government can not unilaterally strip someone of citizenship unless they are actively taking up arms against the U.S. Even then it is rare. Adding another citizenship, or two, or three, does not do that either. I recall meeting people with like 4 citizenships, through various accidents of their life.

The point at which you loose your U.S. citizenship, is now easily defined by the $500+ dollars they charge you to go through the process. We had someone on the forum a while back that renounced their U.S. citizenship. They have had so many problems with people renouncing, and then trying to get it back, they are very careful to make sure you are clear about what you want.

As for the economic part, you need to show you are not a bum living on the street. You essentially have been a normal good citizen, paying taxes (you pay tax right?), and doing all the other good economic things. There is no threshold that I am aware of, and I am not sure there is anyone charged with saying "no money, get out" in the review process.
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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:47 am

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html#noway
If I am a dual US/other citizen, is there any way I can lose my US citizenship?

Although current US law forbids the government from taking your citizenship from you against your will, it does permit you to give it up voluntarily. This has placed the US State Department in the complex position of determining whether someone who claims to be a US citizen has, in fact, given up that citizenship by his voluntary statements or actions.

In the early days of court-mandated acceptance of dual citizenship, State Department officials (hostile as most of them were to the whole idea of dual citizenship) tended to play hardball with people who claimed dual status, looking for almost any excuse to revoke US citizenship, and frequently ruling that a person had voluntarily forsaken his US ties despite steadfast protestations or even convincing evidence to the contrary.

On 16 April 1990, though, the State Department adopted a new set of guidelines for handling dual citizenship cases which are much more streamlined and liberal than before.

The State Department now says that it will assume that a US citizen intends to retain (not give up) his US citizenship if he:

1. is naturalized in a foreign country;
2. takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign country; or
3. accepts foreign government employment that is of a "non-policy-level" nature.

Apparently, a "routine oath of allegiance" to another country is no longer taken as firm evidence of intent to give up US citizenship, even if said oath includes a renunciation of US citizenship. This represents a dramatic reversal of previous US policy; it used to be that any such statement was taken rigidly at face value (as in the Supreme Court's 1980 Terrazas decision).

This presumption that someone intends to keep US citizenship does not apply to a person who:

1. takes a "policy-level" position in a foreign country;
2. is convicted of treason against the US; or
3. engages in "conduct which is so inconsistent with retention of U.S. citizenship that it compels a conclusion that [he] intended to relinquish U.S. citizenship."

The State Department says that cases of these kinds will be examined carefully to determine the person's intent. They also say that cases falling under the last criterion mentioned above (conduct wholly inconsistent with intent to keep US citizenship) are presumed to be "very rare."
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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:52 am

Of course, laws can change and we do have an Empire that will do what it wants, "F" the law. When they can assassinate US citizens on foreign soil with no due process and we have Justice and Legislative branches that don't give a damn or who will side with the Executive by inaction or silence, then who is to stop them from implementing whatever change via Executive Order mandate?
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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by gringalais » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:40 am

admin wrote: As for the economic part, you need to show you are not a bum living on the street. You essentially have been a normal good citizen, paying taxes (you pay tax right?), and doing all the other good economic things. There is no threshold that I am aware of, and I am not sure there is anyone charged with saying "no money, get out" in the review process.
Okay, admin, thanks for that. Yes, I do declare 10% on the monthly tax form 29 for boletas where the witholding has not already been done by the company that I worked for and, of course, every April I do the annual declaration. I am also paying into an AFP and ISAPRE. Looks like I am set to start getting the papers together.

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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by gringalais » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:32 am

I finally have gotten my act together and put together all the documents I need. I will be sending the application in during the next few days and will report back when I get an answer.

I would hope they would grant it to me purely on the basis of making it through the bureaucratic hell I have endured in the last month or so :lol: . I mean the notary, Internal Revenue, International Police, Civil Registry, getting horrible pictures taken, going to the bank for statements, AFP, various photocopies, and I am sure I am forgetting something, required patience I didn't know I had. It must be tough for someone with a less flexible work schedule to even do, when you consider that many offices aren't even open past 2 pm.

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Re: Economic part of Carta de Nacionalizacion application

Post by gringalais » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:52 pm

Quick update for anyone who might be interested.

My documents were received on April 9. On June 11 I got a call from a PDI inspector saying he was going to e-mail me another form to fill out. Some of it repeated information I already provided (it asked me if I was married and my husband's name, when I had already sent in a copy of our marriage certificate in the initial packet of documentation, for example.

There were a few pieces of information they wanted that were a bit harder to get. They wanted information the schools I had attended, starting with primary education. I had to ask my mom for help with that since we moved a lot when I was a child and my memory was a bit fuzzy. Also, they wanted to know the details of my first entry to Chile, which was back in 1993, so I had to track down my old passport to get the exact date.

In addition to that sort of information, they wanted at least 10 reasons why I want to obtain nationality.

It turns out they want it back right away. Waiting for my mom to get back to me delayed my response for a few days and I got a call from him yesterday, saying he needed it by today (the 14th). Fortunately, I heard from my mom and sent it in today. His e-mail was giving me trouble, so I had to call him and he gave me a second e-mail. Kind of funny, it was his gmail address and it had an 007 after his name in the username, like he thinks he is a secret agent, not a paper pusher.

Unfortunately, his e-mail said it should be about a year from now for me to get an answer. I had read it could take a year, but had thought that must be from when I submitted the initial application and paperwork. We have dreams of going to stay with friends of mine in Brazil to see a World Cup game or two, and I was hoping to avoid getting a visa.

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