New law on keeping pets

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frozen-north
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New law on keeping pets

Post by frozen-north » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:03 pm

An interview critical of the new law about pets, 'Ley de Tenencia Responsable de Mascotas', by a representative from the organization Albergando Un Amigo.

This Saturday, 9 of December at 18:30, they will be having a 'get together' in the plaza of Puerto Montt to express their opposition.

Animalistas cuestionan reglamentos de Ley de Tenencia Responsable de Mascotas
Prensa Vértice TV - Región de Los Lagos
Published on Dec 5, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XApmU1vFveM
In the proposed law: Only one dog or cat for every 100 sq meters. Illegal to feed street dogs.
34 artículos que establecen, entre otras medidas, la prohibición de alimentar animales en las calles y la cantidad de animales que se pueden tener de acuerdo al tamaño de la vivienda.

Este último artículo establece que en las casas habitación de sectores urbanos o rurales con "una superficie de terreno inferior o igual a 100 metros" el "número máximo permitido será de una mascota o animal de compañía, considerando perros y gatos".

El artículo ocho, en tanto señala que se "prohibirá la alimentación, provisión de agua e instalación de casuchas para animales en la vía pública o espacios públicos", es decir, no se le podrá dar comida o dar abrilo al perrito regalón del paradero.

http://www.cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais ... 81047.html
It seems that they already might have done some changes as a result of the opposition.
Una polémica se generó luego de que el Ministerio de Salud diera a conocer los documentos preliminares del Reglamento Ley Nº 21.020 sobre Tenencia Responsable de Mascotas y Animales de Compañía, para someterlos a consulta.

Minsal retira polémica norma que regulaba número de mascotas según tamaño de hogares

http://www.t13.cl/noticia/nacional/mins ... de-hogares

Donnybrook
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by Donnybrook » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:39 pm

Here's the thing. If it created fury that there should be a cap on the number of pets you can have based on the square meters of your residence, I can understand that. It is quite a different thing to have two small cats or two great danes. Everyone was imagining their "extra" pets being carted off by some sort of pet police. But I live next door to a woman who has 9 dogs in a small urban garden. She has them but does not clean up after them very often. The smell of urine on a hot day cannot be described and the flies swirling around the fecal matter make it into my kitchen. The dogs bark, sometimes for hours, and they fight each other. I think what the regulation was aimed at was stopping this sort of situation (which is not uncommon). They just tried to apply maths to a very emotional issue and that won't work.

frozen-north
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by frozen-north » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Donnybrook wrote:
Here's the thing. If it created fury that there should be a cap on the number of pets you can have based on the square meters of your residence, I can understand that. It is quite a different thing to have two small cats or two great danes. Everyone was imagining their "extra" pets being carted off by some sort of pet police. But I live next door to a woman who has 9 dogs in a small urban garden. She has them but does not clean up after them very often. The smell of urine on a hot day cannot be described and the flies swirling around the fecal matter make it into my kitchen. The dogs bark, sometimes for hours, and they fight each other. I think what the regulation was aimed at was stopping this sort of situation (which is not uncommon). They just tried to apply maths to a very emotional issue and that won't work.
From what I understood from the interview, if your neighbour were to call herself a 'criador familiar', under the new law she would not have a limit on the number of dogs she could keep.

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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by Julito » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:56 pm

Like so many other so called laws and legislation in Chile it'll never be enforced, it's too emotive and confrontational.

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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by admin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:48 am

It was a proposed regulation, and the backlash was so great they pulled it in less than 24 hours.

Don't mess with the quiltros in chile, if you want to stay in power.

Just watch all those student protests. Who is out front leading them?

The street dogs.
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by admin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:12 am

I get what they were trying to do, but the way they drafted it was stupid. Especially the 1 animal per 100 square meters with a 5 animals per house max.

I have 3 dogs and a cat (all rescues), and half a hector of land, surrounded by several hundred hectors of fields. My animals have their own nanny, and a vet on call 24 hours a day. If i want 10, 20, 100, as long as they are all well cared for, that is my buisness.

I have friends that have like 12+ cats and dogs (all rescues), but live on a 200+ hectare farm. Should they toss a few back on the street because some beucrat in santiago, that obviously does not own animals, says it is too many?

It was the stupid one size fits all nature of the drafting.
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by admin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:33 am

There was another point brought up somewhere, that the proposal probably violated the private property protections in the constitution, so was not going to withstand any challenge in court even if they implemented it.
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:15 am

I see this unconditional defence of uncontrolled domestic animals by "Animal Rights" groups is often more against humans rather than for animals. Whether these people care, or even notice the problems that their habits and attitudes cause is a moot point, but I believe that many do take a perverse pleasure in creating a nuisance, and are not interested in animal welfare, its just another excuse to create mayhem.

A few years ago in P. Arenas, an Animal Rights lumpenmob invaded the cathedral during a service on a specious pretext.
As the pics show, its possible to defend animals and have a good time as well.

A_UNO_223787a.jpg
A_UNO_223787a.jpg (44.76 KiB) Viewed 1200 times
ppataqueiglesia_punta_arenas.jpg
ppataqueiglesia_punta_arenas.jpg (27.06 KiB) Viewed 1200 times
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:32 am

Cholito must be rolling in his grave.
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by fraggle092 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:16 pm

admin wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:12 am
I get what they were trying to do, but the way they drafted it was stupid. Especially the 1 animal per 100 square meters with a 5 animals per house max.
Not getting at people genuinely concerned with animal welfare, but thats not what the proposal says. The intention was to limit the number of pets per house of 100 m2 or less in built-up areas to prevent situations of the type that Donnybrook described previously. Not applicable to isolated properties. Or farms.
Artículo 9º.- En casas habitación, de sectores urbanos o rurales de población
concentrada
, que dispongan de una superficie de terreno inferior o igual a 100 metros
cuadrados, el número máximo permitido será de una mascota o animal de compañía,
considerando perros y gatos......
In a country where they cant even decide on a permanent Time Zone, despite endless discussion and consultation, I doubt that this initiative will come to anything. En Chile no pasa nada.

From a sanitary aspect, I find that cats are worse than dogs. At least dogshit gets sporadically collected, or spread around on pedestrian shoes. But in my town catshit on the rooftops remains intact and undisturbed, providing an excellent breeding ground for flies. Last year I paid a guy to scrape several buckets full off my roofs. Unfortunately nobody else here seems to be aware the problem even exists. Its friggin mediaeval here, still.
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frozen-north
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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by frozen-north » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Not getting at people genuinely concerned with animal welfare, but thats not what the proposal says. The intention was to limit the number of pets per house of 100 m2 or less in built-up areas to prevent situations of the type that Donnybrook described previously. Not applicable to isolated properties. Or farms.

I think that you might be quoting the revised edition, and not the one that was originally proposed and rejected.
Este último artículo establece que en las casas habitación de sectores urbanos o rurales con "una superficie de terreno inferior o igual a 100 metros" el "número máximo permitido será de una mascota o animal de compañía, considerando perros y gatos".

http://www.cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais ... 81047.html
This page seems to have a link to the original document, but I can't get it to display.

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Re: New law on keeping pets

Post by Britkid » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:41 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:15 am
I see this unconditional defence of uncontrolled domestic animals by "Animal Rights" groups is often more against humans rather than for animals. Whether these people care, or even notice the problems that their habits and attitudes cause is a moot point, but I believe that many do take a perverse pleasure in creating a nuisance, and are not interested in animal welfare, its just another excuse to create mayhem.

A few years ago in P. Arenas, an Animal Rights lumpenmob invaded the cathedral during a service on a specious pretext.
As the pics show, its possible to defend animals and have a good time as well.
Only a very tiny minority of animal rights protestors don't care about animals, that is very unfair. Any protest group on any cause will have a small minority of people in it for dubious reasons. It makes no more sense to condemn the cause for that reason, that it does to support racism because a minority of Black Lives Matter protestors are violent.

The real issue with the animal rights movement is that they are a small, fringe movement. When you start very small, it is hard to get people on your side, especially when you are basically protesting against society at large. Feminists had to be put up with exactly these type of mischaracterizations for years, people focusing on the few dubious aspects of some feminists or some protestors before we eventually all jumped on the bandwagon in the most recent years and decades and now everyone wants to say that they are a feminist. The same will happen for animal rights.

Almost all animal rights protestors are peaceful, and most of them would condemn the violence and vandalism and offensive attacks on the cathedral. This is not representative of such groups in general.

On Saturday at 4pm there is a protest in favour of animal rights at Paseo Ahumada in Santiago. Assuming, like most such protests, that it stays peaceful, you won't even know it happened because no news will report on it. But if there are any violent clashes it's more likely to get reported on. Probably >50% of the coverage of protests (of any type) is of the 1% of protests that are violent.

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