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Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:35 am
by PenquistaDeCorazon
I would start a new topic but do not know if it would be of any interest to expats.....
But at least the US does not have Chile's low rent version of Top Gun.
http://diario.latercera.com/2011/01/24/ ... nera.shtml
Google translated version:
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... ml&act=url

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:08 pm
by MikieO
MikieO wrote:Wanna bet it's sliced and diced and only the tax and "security" measures stay.
I can't see that they'll let that 1099 part slip away.
Well hush my mouth

http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews2 ... _1099.html

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:28 am
by hammondmc97
PenquistaDeCorazon wrote:I would start a new topic but do not know if it would be of any interest to expats.....
But at least the US does not have Chile's low rent version of Top Gun.
http://diario.latercera.com/2011/01/24/ ... nera.shtml
Google translated version:
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... ml&act=url
Ha ha ha... some people would think that is Chile's Air Force One...

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:53 am
by PenquistaDeCorazon
Proud to be Chilean and proud to be a Canadian citizen. Call me a commie but I will put up the Canadian health care system up against the inequities in the US and Chilean for profit systems any day of the week.

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:38 am
by Zeubi
Something I like about the publicly founded healthcare system is that I don't have to think about which insurance to get, which clinic I can and can't go to, and should I get a health insurance in the first place or save the monney hoping that nothing will go wrong.
In France everyone's covered under the same (almost) healthcare plan, as we believe it is a basic right and everyone should have access to it.
And that's one thing less to worry about.

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:16 pm
by PenquistaDeCorazon
My mother has had health issues that would have bankrupted the family ten times over. With or without insurance. She has worked since the day we came to Canada. Paying taxes is a good thing.
I contrast that experience with that of my brother who worked as a registered nurse in Navasota Texas and I am glad we have the health care system we do. Does it need fixes? Hell yeah. Of course there will be doctor shortages. Doctors are a global commodity, and when my mom's cardiologist could be making 2 million a year at a hospital in the states (he flies to Toronto once a week to teach at U of T) I am thankful that he believes in our system enough to stay.

Health care should not be a right only for the rich. In a civilized country it is a right for all.

Chile is good if you have good health insurance. But I have seen tons of people struggle with diseases like cancer in Chile and not be able to access the care we get here.

People can spread all the myths they want about health care in Canada. God knows the GOP and Fox news did. But my gf works as a surgical SICU nurse in Regina and the General Hospital SICU wing is where you want to be in Canada if you have just had a heart attack.

SO they can crucify Obama over health care all they want. I am not a fan of any US president actually (though they were long overdue for a person of colour given their history).

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:42 pm
by PenquistaDeCorazon
patagoniax wrote:
PenquistaDeCorazon wrote:. I am not a fan of any US president actually (though they were long overdue for a person of colour given their history).
Perfect example of racism: selection of person on basis of race rather than qualification.
Nope. I would not say that. I would give you that if I felt that he was not qualified. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. But McCain was an idiot as well picking Sarah Palin as his running mate. Would be scary to have her with the button.

If you believe that in all of it's history there was not one black man in the US smart enough to be president then do not accuse me of being racist. :)

Like it or not, the US is still a democracy. When I said it was about time, I was referring more to the fact that blacks for once made their presence felt. Let us not forget that there was a time when blacks could not vote. So in the sense that they exercised their voting rights to utmost effect this time around, the lection of a black man was overdue.

But I do have fundamental differences with an administration in which Joe Biden calls Julian Assange a terrorist and will not call Mubarak a dictator.

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:07 pm
by StevenDC
PenquistaDeCorazon wrote:.Health care should not be a right only for the rich. In a civilized country it is a right for all.

..
Not an argument here, just some questions that may help me get my own position solidified... Why is it a right? In a socialist civilized society it is a given, but I fail to see where the duty should fall upon all in a free society? Doesn't this breed irresponsibility waiting for the government to care for all? Would people not smoke, not over-eat, and not be so care-less if they knew they were the final bill payer? Why should a health nut be on the hook for those that take higher risks? I don't want to pay for the idiot that ate McDonalds every day and drank themselves into a stupor every weekend. Why should the frugal be taxed to pay for those that fail to save money to pay for medical care? Was the health care system "working" in 1776?

Just seems the more the gov gets involved the more it becomes SNAFU.

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:34 pm
by PenquistaDeCorazon
StevenDC wrote:
PenquistaDeCorazon wrote:.Health care should not be a right only for the rich. In a civilized country it is a right for all.

..
Not an argument here, just some questions that may help me get my own position solidified... Why is it a right? In a socialist civilized society it is a given, but I fail to see where the duty should fall upon all in a free society? Doesn't this breed irresponsibility waiting for the government to care for all? Would people not smoke, not over-eat, and not be so care-less if they knew they were the final bill payer? Why should a health nut be on the hook for those that take higher risks? I don't want to pay for the idiot that ate McDonalds every day and drank themselves into a stupor every weekend. Why should the frugal be taxed to pay for those that fail to save money to pay for medical care? Was the health care system "working" in 1776?

Just seems the more the gov gets involved the more it becomes SNAFU.
All good points and more a difference in how we each view the world?
Only way I can answer is with a couple of questions of my own:

How would you propose that the many Chileans who are paid a minimum wage of 200k some odd pesos 'save' money for medical care? Do you believe that they are being irresponsible when they do not? Besides, a catastrophic injury or illness would bankrupt most savers. In the states it is the number one cause of personal bankruptcy.

Would you have the same beliefs if you were not an expat and probably with health insurance (sorry not sure if u r in Chile or your situation.... just a thought)?

So if I thought along the lines of your post, maybe I should ask not to pay property taxes cause half goes to school system.... And well I don't have kids so why should it fall on me to educate other people's kids?

The rich seem to have no problem with being subsidized. The transSantiago moves thousands of nanas to their jobs in the eastern part of Santiago (sector oriente).... From some very marginal communities. It allows them to commute to jobs that pay crap. I heard none of the Libertarians on this forum objecting to the 40k USD being given out by startup Chile.

As to your premise that you should not have to pay for the unfit and those who smoke or eat at McDonald's; Come on :) .... You can do better than that. That is a very basic argument. A two year old who gets cancer is not to blame. No mother should have to watch her child die because of access to medical care.

Let's look at subsidies as you call them. How quickly many of us seem to forget that we are all subsidized at some point. It would be far too convenient for me to say that I pay too much tax in my bracket in Canada. Yet for a measly tuition of 3500 dollars per year back in the day I received an education that was worth maybe 500k all subsidized by people in my province. Many of them working for minimum wage. My GF received a nursing education. Same story. In Canada there are doctors who receive their education here and F off to the states as soon as they graduate. Do you for a minute believe that 14k per year covers what it costs to train a doctor?

If you look at the stats on health care in the states as compared to Canada you will see they spend twice as much and receive worse results. Where my brother worked, the admin building was as big as the hospital almost.

But sorry I got sidetracked. If the issue is Obama and the US of A, then I humbly suggest he has not subsidized anyone like Dubbya subsidized, fattened the defense sector.

I mean the way things stand now US oil companies stand to receive 36 billion from the US taxpayer over the next 10 years. If wanting to do away with those makes Obama a 'socialist' (lol.... sorry) then I guess guilty as charged. Corporate welfare is rampant in North America.

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:58 pm
by StevenDC
Yes, all very good counter points and the type of questions that would lead to a successful health care program - if people with common sense had any say in the matter.

I'll mull your points for several days before replying?

And also to return to thread point of this administration, I think the banking/military/industrial type really have finally secured a 100% control. Want a new law? Make a campaign donation or better yet, fund your own candidate. It's a new world a'comin ...

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:02 pm
by PenquistaDeCorazon
Oh I agree..... It's a mess.

Re: The Obama Administration

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:53 pm
by oregon woodsmoke
I've been watching Mrs Clinton on the TV exhorting Mubarak to start transitioning the government over to the opposition.

The opposition? Really?? And who might that be? There is no organized opposition. Who will the negotiating be with?

Well, there is starting to be an organized opposition. The Muslim Brotherhood has moved their troops in and they are taking over the revolution. So I guess the Obama administration is advocating the takeover of Egypt by radical Muslims.

I'm not seeing any pathway by which the huddled masses of Egypt could possibly come out winners at the end of all this. Mubarak keeps control, there is going to be increased oppression. The radical Muslims take control and there is going to be even worse oppression. That's the problem with spontaneous protest. Nobody has a plan.