America on Fire

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America on Fire

Post by admin » Sun May 31, 2020 8:45 am

I guess I have not bothered even bring the subject up on the forum, for one simple reason.

I would be really suprised, if there were very many people left on the planet that were surprised by the riots in the United States (guess there might still be a goat herder or two in africa, but just one or two).

Back when the 'social unrest' started in Chile, I warned the United States was next.

Well, it is following a pretty similar pattern.

What I am curious about, is do they manage to keep the narrative corralled to police abuse and race; or, in the middle of the economic crisis, does it also broaden out to a broader class conflict.
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Re: America on Fire

Post by tiagoabner » Sun May 31, 2020 10:39 am

From the videos that I've seen thus far, the Chilean carabineros behaved much better when they were being recorded by the TV. Let's see how this goes in the USA.
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Re: America on Fire

Post by gregf » Sun May 31, 2020 10:45 am

Yes, I think the political/economic aspect of this is what caused such a huge breaking out of unrest. It doesn't help when the president taunts and threatens and uses racists dogwhistles rather than being a leader.

We are in Boston and it was quiet here and pretty peaceful.

Something about all of what is happening here feels like the trump antipathy that has been building (bogus impeachment trial, etc etc etc) to a boil. I include in that the nationwide lack of will to address racism and systemic violence against black communities by the police -- Trump just ups the ante rather than addressing those issues, Colin Kaepernick (non violent protest and the VP had a meltdown at football game, but rioting is not the answer either folks!).

I'm rambling, but I feel a huge huge huge part of the population is collectively venting their outrage now. I don't really know where it goes from here. Maybe it dies back down. I got a feeling these protests aren't going to be ending today though.

I also feel the tenor or the protests here are different than Chile. In Chile you have a lot of anarchist and communist groups infiltrating and taking things to a higher level, where the populace seemed more about just marching to show they're pissed about all the little ways the system feels set up against them (the lack of progress with education, fare hikes, Tags, all stuff that you feel making 250 lukas a month). The violent aspect seemed to me, asn outsider, very much injected and you can tell how the politicos are trying to use the violence as a means to power.

Here the feeling is just general outrage at where we are at. The outrageous 9 min knee on neck video, WITH NO ARRESTS OR INVESTIGATIONS UNTIL PROTESTS BROKE OUT, was finally just too much. The streets are full of every color and ethnicity, too.

And a lot of the videos of folks breaking shit here are teen-twenties white boy skateboarder types. Lots of videos of the protestsors trying to get them to stop (similar to Chile).

I don't even know anymore.

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Re: America on Fire

Post by fraggle092 » Sun May 31, 2020 11:10 am

Although the symptoms are the same , the causes are not. Police behaviour in Chile is very different from what we have seen so often in the US, despite what the lefties would have us believe. I also believe that the US disturbances are mostly a genuine and spontaneous outburst of frustration, whereas the manufactured Chilean version was not.

The USA has always been a violent place where actions and reactions are magnified by the use of firearms. And racism is a non-issue here despite attempts to make it one; 50% or more of Chileans have Mapuche ancestry.

Can anyone imagine Piñera saying "When The Looting Starts, The Shooting Starts" ?

I don't approve of either approach btw, there has to be a happy medium....with a firm condemnation of the opportunistic looters and thrill-seekers that are always attracted to these manifestations.
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Re: America on Fire

Post by mem » Sun May 31, 2020 11:20 am

What is strange to me is that it was just a few days ago it was all the anti-mask antilockdown protesters. Now that seems to have been suddenly and entirely replaced with this race/police protests.

Also all the 1 trick pony rioters that do the same thing wherever they are... not happy about something? Bored? Frustrated?
Answer: burn and loot.

All roads lead to burn and loot.

Well in a few weeks of this anarchy of burning and looting, the virus is likewise going to have a resurgence among the 1 trick ponies

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Re: America on Fire

Post by mem » Sun May 31, 2020 11:25 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:10 am
Although the symptoms are the same , the causes are not. Police behaviour in Chile is very different from what we have seen so often in the US, despite what the lefties would have us believe. I also believe that the US disturbances are a genuine and spontaneous outburst of frustration, whereas the manufactured Chilean version was not.

The USA has always been a violent place where actions and reactions are magnified by the use of firearms. And racism is a non-issue here despite attempts to make it one; 50% or more of Chileans have Mapuche ancestry.

Can anyone imagine Piñera saying "When The Looting Starts, The Shooting Starts"

I don't approve of either approach btw, there has to be a happy medium....with a firm condemnation of the opportunistic looters and thrill-seekers that are always attracted to these manifestations.
I remember a lot of people here in Chile dumbfounded why Chile tolerated the burning and looting to some extent.
Comments by chileans in papers were like "this would never be tolerated in the US...they would be shot with live ammo not rubber bullets!"

It's still early days in this and maybe they will die down like they always have after a week or two...but if it goes on for months...or there are more "gotcha" videos of naughty police then that may throw more fire on the whole thing

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Re: America on Fire

Post by mem » Sun May 31, 2020 11:32 am

gregf wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:45 am
Yes, I think the political/economic aspect of this is what caused such a huge breaking out of unrest. It doesn't help when the president taunts and threatens and uses racists dogwhistles rather than being a leader.

We are in Boston and it was quiet here and pretty peaceful.

Something about all of what is happening here feels like the trump antipathy that has been building (bogus impeachment trial, etc etc etc) to a boil. I include in that the nationwide lack of will to address racism and systemic violence against black communities by the police -- Trump just ups the ante rather than addressing those issues, Colin Kaepernick (non violent protest and the VP had a meltdown at football game, but rioting is not the answer either folks!).

I'm rambling, but I feel a huge huge huge part of the population is collectively venting their outrage now. I don't really know where it goes from here. Maybe it dies back down. I got a feeling these protests aren't going to be ending today though.

I also feel the tenor or the protests here are different than Chile. In Chile you have a lot of anarchist and communist groups infiltrating and taking things to a higher level, where the populace seemed more about just marching to show they're pissed about all the little ways the system feels set up against them (the lack of progress with education, fare hikes, Tags, all stuff that you feel making 250 lukas a month). The violent aspect seemed to me, asn outsider, very much injected and you can tell how the politicos are trying to use the violence as a means to power.

Here the feeling is just general outrage at where we are at. The outrageous 9 min knee on neck video, WITH NO ARRESTS OR INVESTIGATIONS UNTIL PROTESTS BROKE OUT, was finally just too much. The streets are full of every color and ethnicity, too.

And a lot of the videos of folks breaking shit here are teen-twenties white boy skateboarder types. Lots of videos of the protestsors trying to get them to stop (similar to Chile).

I don't even know anymore.
Yes a couple of white sisters each in late teens/early 20s were arrested for throwing a molotov cocktail into a police vehicle. No idea if people were inside or not, but van is a cinder now. I assume it must be racist grievance by proxy, but sad that they have ruined their lives by going to such an extreme...by proxy. There are certainly less harmful ways to do that. They could get a job at the NAACP but way more boring than taking on the mantle of enemy combatant

If you really want to throw up there is a video on yt about 7 millenials that compete for "who is the wokest" easy to find

I thought I knew what "woke" meant. Now I really know. Lol

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Re: America on Fire

Post by admin » Sun May 31, 2020 11:41 am

I have lots of friends and family in Minneapolis.

One of my friends lives a couple blocks from where he was killed.

This is a photo she sent me of the police station burning from her back porch.
IMG-20200528-WA0006.jpg
This is a free public health clinic where my friend works. this was after the first night. This is sort of down the street from the police station, across from the target that was looted, I think around where the CNN reporter was arrested.
IMG-20200528-WA0008.jpg
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Re: America on Fire

Post by nikotromus » Sun May 31, 2020 11:52 am

mem wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:20 am
What is strange to me is that it was just a few days ago it was all the anti-mask antilockdown protesters. Now that seems to have been suddenly and entirely replaced with this race/police protests.
Maybe this is the transition event from cv to the next set of 24 hour news cycle fires. Not that the cv event is over by a long shot, but they need some more meat on the bone. Taking a quick glace at a broad section of the "news", cv is looking like a 20 years past her prime Farrah Fawcett as of late.

This is going to be the (U.S.) summer of chaos. A racist president vs. a candidate with early onset alzheimers and endless sex assault allegations. Racist cops murdering people in the streets. People being arrested and beaten for standing too close to each other. Protesters with assault rifles marching on state capitals demanding their slave jobs back. Meat and toilet paper shortages. Record unemployment. People are going to be about ready to lose their collective minds just in time for the election.

How much of it is real and authentic?

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Re: America on Fire

Post by papageno » Sun May 31, 2020 12:21 pm

nikotromus wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:52 am
mem wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:20 am
What is strange to me is that it was just a few days ago it was all the anti-mask antilockdown protesters. Now that seems to have been suddenly and entirely replaced with this race/police protests.
Maybe this is the transition event from cv to the next set of 24 hour news cycle fires. Not that the cv event is over by a long shot, but they need some more meat on the bone. Taking a quick glace at a broad section of the "news", cv is looking like a 20 years past her prime Farrah Fawcett as of late.

This is going to be the (U.S.) summer of chaos. A racist president vs. a candidate with early onset alzheimers and endless sex assault allegations. Racist cops murdering people in the streets. People being arrested and beaten for standing too close to each other. Protesters with assault rifles marching on state capitals demanding their slave jobs back. Meat and toilet paper shortages. Record unemployment. People are going to be about ready to lose their collective minds just in time for the election.

How much of it is real and authentic?
A lot, from many points of view, especially with the Fed continuing to fatten it's friends, further fueling inequality while millions are thrown out of work and tossed a $1,200 crumb, but take a closer look at the photo Admin posted of the building with all the graffiti: just above the U in "fuck" are the letters "acab". I also saw these sprayed on the roofs of police cars in what looked like Los Angeles, same four letters sprayed everywhere in Santiago and also in Puerto Montt. Anarchists? Pseudo anarchist copycats ?

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Re: America on Fire

Post by admin » Sun May 31, 2020 12:54 pm

well, the police seem to be doing a much better job in Minneapolis than in Chile protecting journalist.

:roll:

https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/30/j ... -protests/
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Re: America on Fire

Post by cali_chile48 » Sun May 31, 2020 1:15 pm

Well this is another deja vu experience for me....I was in LA for the Rodney King riots in the early 1990's, and I was in Chile for the craziness in October and November of 2019, and now I 'm in LA again for the George Floyd protests and attendant looting. The mayor has asked for support from the California National Guard, so I guess we'll see soldiers on the streets pretty soon.

The video of George Floyd's murder literally made my guts hurt when I saw it. I was especially struck by how calm the cop was....he had his hands in his pockets and had no apparent fear of killing a fellow US citizen in full daylight knowing that observers were capturing video of his actions. To me this implies a certain confidence and impunity that can only come from being totally fucking crazy or believing that "the system" would never hold him accountable.

Either case is worrying. Which does the US have....a system that allows this kind of sociopath to wear a badge, or a system that promotes and protects institutionalized racism and lynching?

I agree that summer 2020 could be extremely difficult and painful for the US....one more reason for me to get back home soon.

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