Any push back?

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Re: Any push back?

Post by admin » Wed May 20, 2020 2:22 pm

well, the protests in el bosque are being blamed squarely now across the political spectrum on the frigen PC and FA that were calling for protests.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... encia.html
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Re: Any push back?

Post by RuneTheChookcha » Wed May 20, 2020 3:13 pm

Donnybrook wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 11:51 am
...the survivors (not in the medical sense) will be those who accept, adapt...
I am a difficult person in many different respects. Especially, when there are any restrictions on freedom... that one has to "accept and adapt". I think there are other people of this sort. Maybe not...

Anyway, do you believe one has to "accept and adapt" anything, irrespective of the exact type of restrictions being implemented?

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Re: Any push back?

Post by Billhere » Wed May 20, 2020 4:16 pm

Donnybrook says "Rather than push back, what I see is people becoming very creative about making something to sell. In my very residential neighbourhood there is a woman baking wonderful bread and another making masks. The tiny fruit and vegetable shop is doing deliveries. People are adapting to the new normal".

You are just seeing the start of things that are rapidly becoming normal here in the UK. Still in a state of lockdown just about anything can now be produced locally and delivered to your door if you are unsure about going out. The six major supermarkets all have deliveries and click and collect of their wares, and you can click and collect on almost anything. The biggest expansion in employment is now with van and drivers delivering everything ordered on line. Restaurants are closed, but offering click and collect, or having it delivered. My local Indian takeaway is booming and employing three delivery drivers nightly instead of one.

Big changes to our way of life, and a change in the style of living that will soon become the norm, unfortunately at the expense of many shops, both large and small unless they adapt.

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Re: Any push back?

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Wed May 20, 2020 6:45 pm

Hello Rune, yep lots of good analysis out there regarding the authoritarians. Interesting times and according to some, we all chose to be here to experience it and perhaps help mold and choose the reality timeline to follow. Salud.
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Re: Any push back?

Post by nikotromus » Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 6:45 pm
according to some, we all chose to be here to experience it and perhaps help mold and choose the reality timeline to follow. Salud.
Those are interesting ideas to contemplate. Perhaps this experience is a time compressed memory. Perhaps on the day of our death we wake up from our 'dream/experience' realizing that it took maybe an hour out of the day in our real, original existence. However it may work, I just know that I don't want to get recycled back here. I've seen enough of this place.

@Rune - The most incredible thing about this event for me is how quickly people have been willing to forfeit their natural rights, dignity, livelihood and human interactions all in the name of safety. Even if this thing is as bad as they say it is, is it really worth flushing our entire world over a flu like disease that you have a 99% chance of surviving if you're under the age of 70?

If this thing isn't what they say it is, the bad guys who have thrust this event upon us must be laughing their a$$es off. They're probably thinking to themselves "Wow, we only expected to get 5 things from this, but these dummies fell for everything, so now we're going to try for 20".

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Re: Any push back?

Post by tiagoabner » Wed May 20, 2020 7:19 pm

nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm
If this thing isn't what they say it is
Shocking news: it is.
nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm
the bad guys who have thrust this event upon us must be laughing their a$$es off.
There are multiple independent studies showing that the virus wasn't engineered, such as this one. So what's your pet conspiracy theory this time? Who are the "bad boys" who "thrust this event upon us"?

Infowars seems to be doing a great job as of late.
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tiagoabner
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Re: Any push back?

Post by tiagoabner » Wed May 20, 2020 7:44 pm

nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm
Is it really worth flushing our entire world over a flu-like disease that you have a 99% chance of surviving if you're under the age of 70?
There are also multiple issues here:
- COVID-19 isn't a "flu-like" disease, other than the fact that their symptoms are similar. The current mortality risk worldwide is at 6.64% (source), roughly 650 times higher than that of the common flu (which is 0.1%, source).
- However, the death rate can get much higher in cases where the virus is allowed to spread. It got up to over 14% in Italy, as of today, and 4.6% in Germany (source).
- COVID-19 is much more contagious than the common flu, a fact that is amplified by the fact that its symptoms take up to 14 days to show, as opposed to 1-2 days for the common flu (source).
- Due to it being harder to contain without social distancing and isolation, it has the potential to damage the healthcare system as a whole.

In terms of whether or not it is worth it to isolate over "a disease that you have an 85-99%+ chance of surviving" (depending on your risk factors), there's a clear answer to that: yes. I've posted the full calculation of the economic catastrophe that would entail from tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths to an economy at another thread. But you can read more about it here.

Don't get me wrong, this whole isolation/"quarantine" is inconvenient as fuck for me as well. I was going to travel in June to visit my ailing grandfather, who may not live another year. A friend has passed away last month and I couldn't fly to attend his funeral. But I'm not bitching about it because all studies point towards the current measures being the best ones to have in place. There is a time and place for everything, and during a pandemic, the smartest option is to follow the science. If the Chilean government tries to enforce these measures once the population has been vaccinated and once this crisis is over, then I'm all in for bitching against them. But we're not there yet.
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Re: Any push back?

Post by tiagoabner » Wed May 20, 2020 7:50 pm

admin wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:22 pm
well, the protests in El Bosque are being blamed squarely now across the political spectrum on the fricking PC and FA that were calling for protests.

https://www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/ ... encia.html
I love to hate the Chilean left as much as the next guy, but I would like to see the right show some proof of a connection between the left and the El Bosque protests. Otherwise, we'll be stuck in the Chilean politics cycle of "he said, she said".
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nikotromus
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Re: Any push back?

Post by nikotromus » Wed May 20, 2020 7:51 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:19 pm
There are multiple independent studies showing that the virus wasn't engineered, such as https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 this one. So what's your pet conspiracy theory this time? Who are the "bad boys" who "thrust this event upon us"?

Infowars seems to be doing a great job as of late.
I never said it was engineered. I really don't appreciate your snarky accusation. What if it's just a bad strain of the flu that they gave a name and FEAR to? You constantly throw the term "conspiracy" on this forum. Conspiracy is just a convenient way of blowing off any other point of view that doesn't align with the systems presentation of reality.

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Re: Any push back?

Post by nikotromus » Wed May 20, 2020 7:54 pm

tiagoabner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:44 pm
nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:02 pm
Is it really worth flushing our entire world over a flu-like disease that you have a 99% chance of surviving if you're under the age of 70?
There are also multiple issues here:
- COVID-19 isn't a "flu-like" disease, other than the fact that their symptoms are similar. The current mortality risk worldwide is at 6.64% (source), roughly 650 times higher than that of the common flu (which is 0.1%, source).
- However, the death rate can get much higher in cases where the virus is allowed to spread. It got up to over 14% in Italy, as of today, and 4.6% in Germany (source).
- COVID-19 is much more contagious than the common flu, a fact that is amplified by the fact that its symptoms take up to 14 days to show, as opposed to 1-2 days for the common flu (source).
- Due to it being harder to contain without social distancing and isolation, it has the potential to damage the healthcare system as a whole.

In terms of whether or not it is worth it to isolate over "a disease that you have an 85-99%+ chance of surviving" (depending on your risk factors), there's a clear answer to that: yes. I've posted the full calculation of the economic catastrophe that would entail from tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths to an economy at another thread. But you can read more about it here.

Don't get me wrong, this whole isolation/"quarantine" is inconvenient as fuck for me as well. I was going to travel in June to visit my ailing grandfather, who may not live another year. A friend has passed away last month and I couldn't fly to attend his funeral. But I'm not bitching about it because all studies point towards the current measures being the best ones to have in place. There is a time and place for everything, and during a pandemic, the smartest option is to follow the science. If the Chilean government tries to enforce these measures once the population has been vaccinated and once this crisis is over, then I'm all in for bitching against them. But we're not there yet.
Is Covid19 not an upper respiratory disease?

The mortality rate is laden with fraud. Like - a rediculous amount of fraud. Check out the CDC's website for their own guidelines on how to mark a death as CV. It's ridiculous. Then add to that the financial incentive for hospitals to mark that death as CV, and you have a recipe for inflated numbers.

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Re: Any push back?

Post by tiagoabner » Wed May 20, 2020 8:00 pm

nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:51 pm
tiagoabner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:19 pm
There are multiple independent studies showing that the virus wasn't engineered, such as https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 this one. So what's your pet conspiracy theory this time? Who are the "bad boys" who "thrust this event upon us"?

Infowars seems to be doing a great job as of late.
I never said it was engineered. I really don't appreciate your snarky accusation. What if it's just a bad strain of the flu that they gave a name and FEAR to? You constantly throw the term "conspiracy" on this forum. Conspiracy is just a convenient way of blowing off any other point of view that doesn't align with the systems presentation of reality.
Your appreciation was never a concern to me, only the fact that you're spreading misinformation.

"Conspiracy" is a theory that has no scientific proof behind it. The SARS COVID-19 virus is from the same family as the SARS and MERS virus (source). There is no proof at this time that they are related to the influenza virus. Anyone that can prove otherwise will most likely get a Nobel prize.

Do you have any proof that the COVID-19 virus is from the same family of viruses as the Influenza virus?
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Re: Any push back?

Post by tiagoabner » Wed May 20, 2020 8:15 pm

nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:54 pm
Is Covid19 not an upper respiratory disease?
Yes, it is. As are hundreds of other diseases. The fact that both of them are within the same type of disease doesn't mean that they are the same disease, nor that they have the same outcome and complexity. How many people had to use ventilators in last year's flu season? You can check a detailed "COVID vs. Influenza: similarities and differences" article here.
nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:54 pm
Check out the CDC's website for their own guidelines on how to mark a death as CV.
I have just checked the CDC guidelines for marking COVID-19 deaths (which you haven't linked, but it can be found here) and it seems pretty standard to me. The "What happens if the terms reported on the death certificate indicate uncertainty?" line item establishes that "probable" and "likely" cases will be marked as Coronavirus. Is that what you disagree with? Do you have an alternative suggestion on how to proceed, then? Given that isolation/social distancing has made most other respiratory diseases show in much lower numbers this year (as they usually show symptoms much early, and people aren't hanging out with other people that are showing respiratory disease signals), it seems like a reasonable guideline.
nikotromus wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:54 pm
Then add to that the financial incentive for hospitals to mark that death as CV, and you have a recipe for inflated numbers.
It is true that hospitals in the US do receive government funds when they have COVID cases, but they also get them when their income has been reduced due to lower demand (source). I would love to be any proof of this fraud. You're also skipping over the fact that both Germany and Italy have universal healthcare systems, so this reasoning wouldn't apply there. There are also the corpses being piled up in churches in Italy, the ice rink converted into a mortuary in Spain, and the mortuary trucks in NYC. Are you denying the fact that people are dying?
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