Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by mem » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:26 pm

Nice hotel that hermitage, if we ever get to Russia will look to stay there. The one in BA looks nice too...we had looked for major international hotel chains in BA a while back but didnt find any that we thought would be similar or better to the say ritz carlton in santiago (which isnt quite saying much anyway but not bad at all) we definitely need to get to BA for a vacation at some point

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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by at46 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:30 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:23 am
my bigger concern, for the tourism industry in chile this year, is not the lack of Argentinans visiting chile; but, that Argentina is just a way better deal than southern chile, for both chileans and foreigners. hell, we are planning to take full advantage of the cheap prices this year. We have done three trips in to Argentina this last year already, and had a good time each time.
Argies dropped three billion here in the first year after currency controls were lifted, so it's nothing to sneeze at. Compare that with USD100 million Chile will get from the newly permitted exports of oranges to China. Or the USD250 million failed Maersk container plant and how much press that got.

The loss of Argie tourism is like loosing 12 Maersk plants but it got almost no press at all. Even though it was a perfect opportunity to ram into the heads of Chileans the importance of tourism for this country.

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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by 41southchile » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:49 pm

at46 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:30 pm
admin wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:23 am
my bigger concern, for the tourism industry in chile this year, is not the lack of Argentinans visiting chile; but, that Argentina is just a way better deal than southern chile, for both chileans and foreigners. hell, we are planning to take full advantage of the cheap prices this year. We have done three trips in to Argentina this last year already, and had a good time each time.

The loss of Argie tourism is like loosing 12 Maersk plants but it got almost no press at all. Even though it was a perfect opportunity to ram into the heads of Chileans the importance of tourism for this country.
So how do you ram their heads together? For the effort is it worth it ? As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, there is ample enough evidence to show the value of tourism dollars, there are grants and what not to tourism operators from govt. Here they see it like a lot of things in Chile , put in minimal effort in the hope of maximum rewards. It's the same reason there are so many crappy real estate agents (using the title generously ) they put in minimum effort and think all they have to do is get a perspective buyer and seller together, and take their cut.
Everyone here seems to say "oh Chile is so beautiful with its lakes, volcanoes, rivers, lakes etc" the mentality seems to be tourists should come here ( they are all rich) to our special features and we will charge prices that bear no relation to services or experience, but hey we have a mountain and a river. Guess what? , New Zealand Slovenia, Norway etc etc etc all have natural beauty too. It's not enough to rest on that, and think you can charge a fortune for sub parr services. If they can't do it properly, get out of the game, (same goes for real estate agents )
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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by admin » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:08 pm

chile's annual tourism income is 4 to 5 billion dollars a year.

Minnesota, not particularly known for anything but its outdoor activities, most involving subzero temps or massive sworms of mosquitoes, and no mountains or ski resorts worth mentioning, runs about 15 billion dollars a year.
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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by at46 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:03 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:08 pm
chile's annual tourism income is 4 to 5 billion dollars a year.

Minnesota, not particularly known for anything but its outdoor activities, most involving subzero temps or massive sworms of mosquitoes, and no mountains or ski resorts worth mentioning, runs about 15 billion dollars a year.
Some of it might be pass through 'tourism' - truckers filling up on out of state credic cards or something like that. But Switzerland makes USD45 billion on tourism with half the population of Chile. I think that's a better example of what Chile should be striving for.

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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by 41southchile » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 pm

at46 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:03 pm
admin wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:08 pm
chile's annual tourism income is 4 to 5 billion dollars a year.

Minnesota, not particularly known for anything but its outdoor activities, most involving subzero temps or massive sworms of mosquitoes, and no mountains or ski resorts worth mentioning, runs about 15 billion dollars a year.
Some of it might be pass through 'tourism' - truckers filling up on out of state credic cards or something like that. But Switzerland makes USD45 billion on tourism with half the population of Chile. I think that's a better example of what Chile should be striving for.
Like I asked before, how ? NZ has a third of the population of Chile and makes about 15 billion from international tourism, that much again from domestic tourism spending . Its nothing to do with population or natural attractions (there are plenty of mountains and rivers everywhere). Its about a marketing campaign, its about making it easy for tourists to get around and other tourist infrastructure and ease of being there etc. Its about attitude and service and generally actually putting some effort in to having a good product to offer tourists . All things Chile fails abysmally at.
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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by at46 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:48 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 pm
at46 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:03 pm
admin wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:08 pm
chile's annual tourism income is 4 to 5 billion dollars a year.

Minnesota, not particularly known for anything but its outdoor activities, most involving subzero temps or massive sworms of mosquitoes, and no mountains or ski resorts worth mentioning, runs about 15 billion dollars a year.
Some of it might be pass through 'tourism' - truckers filling up on out of state credic cards or something like that. But Switzerland makes USD45 billion on tourism with half the population of Chile. I think that's a better example of what Chile should be striving for.
Like I asked before, how ? NZ has a third of the population of Chile and makes about 15 billion from international tourism, that much again from domestic tourism spending . Its nothing to do with population or natural attractions (there are plenty of mountains and rivers everywhere). Its about a marketing campaign, its about making it easy for tourists to get around and other tourist infrastructure and ease of being there etc. Its about attitude and service and generally actually putting some effort in to having a good product to offer tourists . All things Chile fails abysmally at.
Yeah, they do fail miserably, but unapologetically, at all of those and more :). The only marginal change I've seen so far is where the foreigners handed their asses to them. I try to avoid dealing with Chileans as much as I can.

I have fun filling out customer service questionnairs I get every time I go to see a doctor at Integramedica. After Bupa bought them, they've been trying pretty hard to improve customer service and I've been happy to see almost every deficiency I point out being acted upon. The improvements don't seem to last but it's nice to be able to give them a virtual kick in the ass :)

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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by Julito » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:54 pm

One story, it´s bed time for me... I know a hotel owner who detests foreign guests but employed a bilingual receptionist "to make more money". She fired her 3 months later for speaking too much English. She felt threatened by the perception her receptionist was "taking control". Culture again...

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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by admin » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:51 am

Julito wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:54 pm
One story, it´s bed time for me... I know a hotel owner who detests foreign guests but employed a bilingual receptionist "to make more money". She fired her 3 months later for speaking too much English. She felt threatened by the perception her receptionist was "taking control". Culture again...
even funnier story, I have seen similar attitudes among tourism biz owners when dealing with foriegners, and other none-english speaking employees that get jealous that the English speaker (even if a marginal english speaker) is getting special treatment or has more privilege in the organization.
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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by fraggle092 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:29 pm

41southchile wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 pm
its about making it easy for tourists to get around and other tourist infrastructure and ease of being there etc. Its about attitude and service and generally actually putting some effort in to having a good product to offer tourists . All things Chile fails abysmally at.
Given that Chile is an expensive destination, it seems a pity that the visitors who do make the effort to get here don't get better served. But the passive-aggressive attitude is at least applied to all fairly evenly...can't see that changing anytime soon.

Just a reminder. For travellers, organize transport etc in advance over this year's mega-18 (like NOW is almost too late) as Chile will shut down over that period, over a week this year. Even finding a restaurant can be difficult.....
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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by admin » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:35 pm

well, here comes the next regularly scheduled Argentina screw-up: currency controls are back.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... -escalates

the short list:

Central bank sets deadline for repatriation of foreign earnings for exporters

Repatriation must be made within 5 days of payment or within 15 days of receiving the shipping permit in the case of grains, whichever is quickest

Other exporters have 180 days from the date of the shipping approval

Argentines can only buy as much as $10,000 a month, or transfer the same amount to a foreign account

Limit is $1,000 in the case of non-residents

All companies must request permission to distribute dividends abroad or to buy dollars in the foreign exchange market

They can’t buy dollars for savings purposes

No restrictions for dollar purchases aimed at completing foreign trade transactions

No limits to companies and savers that want to withdraw dollars in cash from their accounts

No currency restrictions on tourists or Argentines abroad


the one in bold, will completely tank all those new york traded ADRs
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Re: Argentina Economy, Election, and possible default?

Post by admin » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:44 pm

If they follow the standard argentina pyramid scheme script, these restrictions will be much, much tighter in the next week or two.

first, they normally do some sort of faint, as if things might have bottomed out, just to sucker in a few more international investors and perhaps get some more money out of the IMF.
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