Venezuela crisis

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AnciaVagar
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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by AnciaVagar » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:05 pm

nwdiver wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:02 pm
Creative non-fiction...
That would be an oxymoron if it were true.

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by admin » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:37 pm

so over the weekend three russian planes, 100 troops, and a russian general. now s-300 missiles deployed:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... op-arrival

my only problem with this shit show is, russia might be over playing its hand (a la cuban missile crisis). from the view of u.s. military complex and hawks, latin american countries are not ukrain or syria, with only a marginal security implications for some marginal u.s. interest at stake, thousands of miles away.

putin might of taken what was realy a half hearted interest the u.s. might have in regime change in Venezuela, and elivated it to a MUST have war.
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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by at46 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:43 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:37 pm
so over the weekend three russian planes, 100 troops, and a russian general. now s-300 missiles deployed:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... op-arrival

my only problem with this shit show is, russia might be over playing its hand (a la cuban missile crisis). from the view of u.s. military complex and hawks, latin american countries are not ukrain or syria, with only a marginal security implications for some marginal u.s. interest at stake, thousands of miles away.

putin might of taken what was realy a half hearted interest the u.s. might have in regime change in Venezuela, and elivated it to a MUST have war.
It's a much bigger play and all about oil (and a bit of well aged revenge). It's not about Russia in LA and certainly not about ideology. It's about Royal Dutch Shell and BP, or, more generally, the Brits trying to make Britain great again :). One of the founders of Shell was from Iraq, and it lists Morgan Stanley and Fisher Investments among the owners, while BP owns 20% of Rosneft and is owned by the the Vanguard and State Street, among others. Do those names ring a bell? :) It also probably still feels a bit raw about the Deepwater Horizon 'accident'.

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by AnciaVagar » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:45 pm

at46 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:43 pm
admin wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:37 pm
so over the weekend three russian planes, 100 troops, and a russian general. now s-300 missiles deployed:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... op-arrival

my only problem with this shit show is, russia might be over playing its hand (a la cuban missile crisis). from the view of u.s. military complex and hawks, latin american countries are not ukrain or syria, with only a marginal security implications for some marginal u.s. interest at stake, thousands of miles away.

putin might of taken what was realy a half hearted interest the u.s. might have in regime change in Venezuela, and elivated it to a MUST have war.
It's a much bigger play and all about oil (and a bit of well aged revenge). It's not about Russia in LA and certainly not about ideology. It's about Royal Dutch Shell and BP, or, more generally, the Brits trying to make Britain great again :). One of the founders of Shell was from Iraq, and it lists Morgan Stanley and Fisher Investments among the owners, while BP owns 20% of Rosneft and is owned by the the Vanguard and State Street, among others. Do those names ring a bell? :) It also probably still feels a bit raw about the Deepwater Horizon 'accident'.
The balloon popped today, so there's lots of blather spilling all over the internet.

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by Julito » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:23 pm

I don´t think Putin has ever elevated anything to "a must have war". It´s not the way he thinks. He leaves that to others, but when push has been coming to shove in recent years he's started drawing lines in the sand. I´ve been reading his speeches for years now and it´s becoming apparent he´s basically had a gutful of what´s been going on since 9/11.

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by at46 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:37 pm

Julito wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:23 pm
I don´t think Putin has ever elevated anything to "a must have war". It´s not the way he thinks. He leaves that to others, but when push has been coming to shove in recent years he's started drawing lines in the sand. I´ve been reading his speeches for years now and it´s becoming apparent he´s basically had a gutful of what´s been going on since 9/11.
It was a big turning point, wasn't it? I was just reading the New York Times article on the Ethiopean crash where they said parts of the plane turned to dust when it hit the ground. I just shook my head as the New York Times should know better: the planes cut into concrete buildings like warm knife into butter, leaving a perfect silhouette and sticking out intact on the other side before the building turns into dust :)

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by at46 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:43 pm

AnciaVagar wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:45 pm
at46 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:43 pm
admin wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:37 pm
so over the weekend three russian planes, 100 troops, and a russian general. now s-300 missiles deployed:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... op-arrival

my only problem with this shit show is, russia might be over playing its hand (a la cuban missile crisis). from the view of u.s. military complex and hawks, latin american countries are not ukrain or syria, with only a marginal security implications for some marginal u.s. interest at stake, thousands of miles away.

putin might of taken what was realy a half hearted interest the u.s. might have in regime change in Venezuela, and elivated it to a MUST have war.
It's a much bigger play and all about oil (and a bit of well aged revenge). It's not about Russia in LA and certainly not about ideology. It's about Royal Dutch Shell and BP, or, more generally, the Brits trying to make Britain great again :). One of the founders of Shell was from Iraq, and it lists Morgan Stanley and Fisher Investments among the owners, while BP owns 20% of Rosneft and is owned by the the Vanguard and State Street, among others. Do those names ring a bell? :) It also probably still feels a bit raw about the Deepwater Horizon 'accident'.
The balloon popped today
Oh, I'm sorry, did it hit you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPyDwMe3L1U
LOL

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by admin » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:32 pm

this is what i mean about russia forcing the u.s. in to a military option:

https://warisboring.com/trump-administr ... venezuela/

if they can bear bait the u.s. in to a confl8ct in Venezuela, then the u.s. inevitably is distracted and less of a thorn in the side of putin in other theaters. russia can not sustain a direct conflict in Venezuela, but it sure and csn make the u.s. pay for one with minimal risk.
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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:00 pm

It was Ruso air defense systems that thwarted the neocon war thirsty push in Syria, and perhaps it will here too. Popcorn time people.
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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by AnciaVagar » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:28 am

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:00 pm
It was Ruso air defense systems that thwarted the neocon war thirsty push in Syria, and perhaps it will here too. Popcorn time people.
Popcorn, indeed. Can you guess which neocon said:

"I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: if you threaten America, you will find no safe haven."

"In Iraq and Syria, American leadership - including our military power - is stopping ISIL's advance."

"ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria, and the broader Middle East - including American citizens, personnel and facilities. If left unchecked, these terrorists could pose a growing threat beyond that region, including to the United States."

"I make no apologies for us wanting to do this [bombing Iraq and Syria] appropriately and in a way that is consistent with American values."

"It's time to 'stop being ambivalent.' ... They (groups like the Islamic State) have no ideology beyond violence and chaos and the slaughter of innocent people."

"We remain steadfast in opposing Iran's destabilizing behavior elsewhere, including its against Israel and our Gulf partners and its support for violent proxies in places like Syria and Yemen."

"ISIS is a virulent, nasty organization that has gained a foothold in ungoverned spaces effectively in Syria and parts of western Iraq. We have to take it seriously. They've shown in Paris what they can do in an organized fashion."

"For America to get more entangled militarily in Syria is a serious step, and we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping; that we're not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turn them against us or allies in the region."


Here's a clue:
"I don't expect that the president-elect will follow exactly our blueprint or our approach in Syria."

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by at46 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:46 pm

AnciaVagar wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:28 am
eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:00 pm
It was Ruso air defense systems that thwarted the neocon war thirsty push in Syria, and perhaps it will here too. Popcorn time people.
Popcorn, indeed. Can you guess which neocon said:

"I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: if you threaten America, you will find no safe haven."

"In Iraq and Syria, American leadership - including our military power - is stopping ISIL's advance."

"ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria, and the broader Middle East - including American citizens, personnel and facilities. If left unchecked, these terrorists could pose a growing threat beyond that region, including to the United States."

"I make no apologies for us wanting to do this [bombing Iraq and Syria] appropriately and in a way that is consistent with American values."

"It's time to 'stop being ambivalent.' ... They (groups like the Islamic State) have no ideology beyond violence and chaos and the slaughter of innocent people."

"We remain steadfast in opposing Iran's destabilizing behavior elsewhere, including its against Israel and our Gulf partners and its support for violent proxies in places like Syria and Yemen."

"ISIS is a virulent, nasty organization that has gained a foothold in ungoverned spaces effectively in Syria and parts of western Iraq. We have to take it seriously. They've shown in Paris what they can do in an organized fashion."

"For America to get more entangled militarily in Syria is a serious step, and we have to do so making absolutely certain that we know who we are helping; that we're not putting arms in the hands of folks who eventually could turn them against us or allies in the region."


Here's a clue:
"I don't expect that the president-elect will follow exactly our blueprint or our approach in Syria."
Did you copy and paste these from some website? You could have just posted a link, you know :) Or did you diligently copy it out of one special red book? :) (tip: not Jung's lol)

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Re: Venezuela crisis

Post by AnciaVagar » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:41 pm

eeuunikkeiexpat wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:00 pm
It was Ruso air defense systems that thwarted the neocon war thirsty push in Syria, and perhaps it will here too. Popcorn time people.
Rhetoric and emotion aside, Venezuela has had their own S-300s deployed around Ríos airbase for over six years, so not much has changed. And we’ve seen the spectacular results of Russian mercs and proxies use of lesser systems in Crimea and Syria (MH17, Il-20). Russia has not allowed any use of their S-300s in Syria, so it follows that the uniformed troops are in Vz to maintain control of the launchers and probably some other stuff as well. It's not difficult to imagine a Venezuelan (Cuban) general* negligently pulling the trigger on an American surveillance plane or airliner over the Caribbean, prompting an actual full scale military response.

Which is more likely: that Russia is winding down its relationship with the Chavistas in order to salvage their investments in Vz, or that they eagerly prop-up Maduro, a liability who has no ability to pay? Maduro has nothing to offer.

Considering how hard-left and anti-US every politician in Vz is, the Russians must easily assume that they will continue to do business there. And they need to negotiate with the same AN that declared most of their loans illegal. Anything that appears as support for Maduro is just bad theater and posturing.

*With over 3000 generals, many have some rather menial assignments. Remember the one placed in charge of toilet paper? =)

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