Thoughts on the State of Europe

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Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by admin » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:57 pm

he, made it back alive from Europe.

That is almost not joke. At one point, my wife and I were within about 10 meters of the terrorist in London, after he attempted to set a bomb with a timer on the tube train, then escape to dover. We were heading north from dover, as he was headed south. They caught him the next day in dover.

Few days later, they were evacuating places all over Russia that we had been, due to the fake bomb threats that were coming in by phone.

And everywhere we went, there was just massive security. I kind of came to the conclusion if you need regular military troops with automatic weapons to keep a tourist attraction safe, you probably should not go to that tourist attraction. A bunch of kids with fully automatic weapons on patrol in say Paris or London or whatever, does not make me feel safer.

Then of course the day we are flying out (late the night before in Vegas, but our morning in Germany), the Las Vegas shooting took place. The frankfurt airport in an hour or so went from tight security but not terribly intrusive, to wholy bat shit batman. Just truck loads of police with automatic weapons showed up, and they cranked the screws down at security. The guy at security, said he was going to perform a random check on my bag for explosives. I politely pointed out, more to correct his English, it is not random check anymore if you are checking everyone.

We spent an easy 30 mins each going through the security evaluation. Not even including standing in line. Acutely being checked. I got called out at two different stations, for things I have never had a airport have an issue with. One was they detected my money belt I keep a bit of emergency cash and credit cards when traveling. They found that in the x-ray / bomb detector. Got a full pat down for that one. Then they pulled my back pack for a explosive wipe, and detected a hand wash. But not just that I had it in the pack, but exactly which pocket it was in. The Germans are serious.

The refugee thing is probably the most noticeable mess. We had refugees in front of us in line in Germany, hold up the whole line when they turned themselves in to claim asylum. The poor German guy was pissed.

In Italy, there are just packs of young black Africans hanging around the parks and the train stations, doing nothing all day. In Italy, Germany, and Austria, you never see a black person of any sort doing anything of importance. That seems to be by design. once in a while you might catch a glimpse of a black person cleaning rooms, or working in the kitchen of a restaurant, but they were almost nowhere to be seen if they were working. They were not waiters. They were not working info desks at airports. Out of sight, and out of mind seems to be the policy.

Same with muslims. The countries that have terrorist attacks regularly, France and England, there are muslims everywhere. The ones that don't have much of terrorism problem such as Italy and Austria, you almost never see a Muslim. Perhaps a super high-end tourist, at a super high-end hotel, but not out on the streets just doing day to day sort of stuff.

In fact, I realized what a problem they have in the U.K., when about two hours after the terrorist attack, my wife and I are at a major tourist site. There is not just one or two young single arbic speaking males around. There is packs of them, literally standing in line, waiting their turn, to take selfies with the tourist attraction. Now, I am sure most of them are really just tourist; but, the point is how do you sort the "good" Muslims from the "bad" Muslims, when you have so many Muslims. Obviously, muslims have a right to be tourist too. My point is that all the goverment jaw boning over it, is bullshit. The soliders wondering around, are just eye-candy to try and make the tourist feel better.

However, this time was different.

On one side, you got everyone on edge over the terrorist attacks and immigrant issue.

On the other side, you have these really radical racial and social tension things going on.

Neither of us remember Europe being that tense. When we lived there, there was a bunch of debates about the muslims and their integration, but it still for the most part pretty civil. Now, I don't know what is up with it. There was also a bunch of debate about letting in the eastern countries all at once to the EU, now the debate is about keeping the EU at all.

Well this trip we covered a lot of territory while there. Russia, Germany, Austria, France, Initially, U.K., and a couple hours at the Madrid airport (that was sufficient Spain for me).

Everywhere you go, there is just this strange tension brewing. The kicker is, everyone in Europe seems to be a on a different page about everything. They really need to drop the "union" part from the European Union.

Then we also wen to Russia. LOVED Russia. Totally hope to go back and explore more. Had a great time.

Russia has it's issues too. It was well worth seeing it, just for historical perspective on where Russia is at, at this point in time. I think a lot of Russia's issues right now, have to do with all of the above issues I just talked about. In short, they are not seeing the EU as their friend. I am not sure the EU is seeing the EU as a friend these days, but the Russians are really not seeing it that way.

If I had to sum it all up, I think Europe is going to do what Europe has always done for the last thousand years: war. I think there is a very real possibility that Europe tries for WW 3.0; or something like it.
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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by Jamers41 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:27 pm

Let's hope that's at least not in our lifetime.

britinchile

Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by britinchile » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:28 pm

Wow, you were lucky to come out of those close encounters alive!!

- You might have passed a terrorist on a train travelling in the opposite direction
- You visited places in Russia days before there were fake bomb threats
- You saw massive security in many places (but in the US you can’t enter a cinema without going through a gun detector).
- The security was tight in Frankfurt after the Las Vegas shooting – I fail to see how they could be related? The Germans are serious about security (which I don’t see that as a bad thing) plus what occurred to you has happened to me in a number of times in various places around the world, it’s been the norm for many years in numerous airports.

The chances of encountering or being involved in a terrorist attack are incredibly incredibly small, we’re talking in the thousandths of 1%. There is a much higher probability of getting shot by a gun lover on a visit to the US. You seem to have a strong anti-muslim prejudice but you could say the same about the crazy white guys in the US – I am sure that most of the white guys are good people, but how do you sort the “good” white guys from the “crazy” white guys? Something like 5% of the UK’s population is muslim and many muslims visit the UK – of course you are going to see them!

Most countries in Europe are on a different page - they have different cultures, languages and governments, what did you expect – the EU to have a magic solution to make everything standardized?
I think Russia’s issues are way over and above any tensions with the EU. I really can’t see WW3 coming from European infighting? I think you’re totally deluded with that assumption! If there is a WW3 the US will be heavily involved somewhere.

What a negative post – you seem to have a very negative mindset (I’m a forum lurker and have seen that for the years I’ve been viewing the forum), especially after what would appear to be an amazing trip! I just visited Europe for three weeks and had a blast, perhaps I wasn’t looking for things that aren’t actually there. I guess by your thinking I nearly died on Las Ramblas in Barcelona as I was there 10 days before the terrorist attack!

I would suggest that you stay in your bubble in the South of Chile as you will likely be safe there!

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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by lost gringo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:31 pm

britinchile wrote:I really can’t see WW3 coming from European infighting?
Really? Where did the first two world wars originate?
For that matter where have the majority of wars in the last 1000 years taken place?
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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by nikotromus » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:35 pm

I don't believe in terrorist boogeymen. Not to say that there aren't a few one off psychos out there, but there are one offs with anything. I do believe in false flags and hoaxes and staged events meant to keep the people scared and divided and paying their taxes for more and more security measures.

What's the answer to the terrorists? More security and the loss of personal freedoms. With - lots of benefits to the MIC in the form of funneled tax money to pay for it all. Your post highlights this point perfectly.

If Europe wants an end to all the Muslim Migrants, they should stop supporting Washington's wars that are destroying the homes and communities of all of these people. That would end the refugee crisis immediately, at least from the middle east. 26,000 bombs dropped on 7 countries in 2016 alone is a damn shame. Ask your average Joe American why we're drone bombing and cluster bombing these countries and see what kind of response you get. I've asked these questions. The responses are sickening.

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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by Space Cat » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:39 pm

admin wrote:Russia has it's issues too. It was well worth seeing it, just for historical perspective on where Russia is at, at this point in time. I think a lot of Russia's issues right now, have to do with all of the above issues I just talked about. In short, they are not seeing the EU as their friend. I am not sure the EU is seeing the EU as a friend these days, but the Russians are really not seeing it that way.
This is a new development. From the early 90s to late 10s Russia was praying on the Western lifestyle and mimicking everything possible. Then the government saw that it was not paying out much while the US and Europe kept bashing them for corruption and human right violations.

Our generation got into the streets with opposition leaders because we didn't like the lack of Europe-like development. The government perceived it as a Western plot to get control over the country. Then Putin got elected on the 3rd term and they turned propaganda up to 11.

Now literally all the media are spreading BS 24/7 about "degenerate Gayrope" and the US trying to undermine Russia for being so spiritual and anti-consumerist (i.e. poor). They created an alternate reality and brainwashed a significant chunk of the population, even my parents. I watched people completely changing in 5 years and becoming highly politicized and anti-Western, especially after the conflict in Ukraine.

So everything most Russians say about politics and their perception of the world is actually a retranslation of the Kremlin's ideas.

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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by Britkid » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:20 pm

I am not sure I would use the word "packs" to refer to blacks or muslims. You might say this is political correctness gone mad but why risk it.

Europe is pretty safe and the number of people dying from terrorism is far smaller than car accidents, heart disease, cancer or air pollution and yet people talk over and over the terrorism issue while not taking the actions that could reduce the things that cause more deaths.

I think most of the terrorism seems to occur in centres of major cities so far, so in such places you may have a different take on it. I suspect that's where you spent more of your time.

As to Russia, what is going on there is a bad dictator presiding over a corrupt country where he suppressed press freedoms and political opposition and used foreign wars to boost his own ratings. Russia has gone backwards since the 1990s. If the price of gas and oil were to crash, so would the country. Russia is "“a gas station masquerading as a country” according to John Mccain (one of the few Republicans I have real respect for). Unfortunately Putin has done so much awful stuff now he may even have to cling to power indefinately for his own survival. Biased Russian media brands Westerners as fascists and deliberately stokes up exaggerated fears as part of Putin's propaganda strategy to brainwash his own people into the need for strong and stable government. Sadly it seems to work and he seems to be genuinely popular.

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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by Britkid » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:23 pm

Space Cat, I was replying to the admin rather than you on Russia. I didn't see your post. It wasn't there when I started typing mine. I was typing my post on and off in little breaks in the football so it took a while.

I agree with what you say on Russia, but what is your personal experience. Are you from Russia?
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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by Space Cat » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:25 pm

Britkid wrote:Space Cat, I was replying to the admin rather than you on Russia. I didn't see your post. It wasn't there when I started typing mine. I was typing my post on and off in little breaks in the football so it took a while.

I agree with what you say on Russia, but what is your personal experience. Are you from Russia?
Yes, I've spent over 23 years there before starting traveling.
As to Russia, what is going on there is a bad dictator presiding over a corrupt country where he suppressed press freedoms and political opposition and used foreign wars to boost his own ratings. Russia has gone backwards since the 1990s. If the price of gas and oil were to crash, so would the country. Russia is "“a gas station masquerading as a country” according to John Mccain (one of the few Republicans I have real respect for). Unfortunately Putin has done so much awful stuff now he may even have to cling to power indefinately for his own survival. Biased Russian media brands Westerners as fascists and deliberately stokes up exaggerated fears as part of Putin's propaganda strategy to brainwash his own people into the need for strong and stable government. Sadly it seems to work and he seems to be genuinely popular.
It's not just a single "bad dictator", there's a long history of heavy political oppression, starting at least with the "oprichnina" of Ivan the Terrible, but I'd say with the destruction of the Novgorod Republic in the 15th century. The purges in the 20th century didn't help in getting more liberal thinkers either.

Now the final brain drain is going on, while the population rapidly declines due to high rates of HIV, low-quality opiate overdose, suicides, and of course alcoholism. Male life expectancy is 65 years. The country's future is sad and hopeless in my opinion.

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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by bert.douglas » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:32 am

lost gringo wrote:
britinchile wrote:I really can’t see WW3 coming from European infighting?
Really? Where did the first two world wars originate?
For that matter where have the majority of wars in the last 1000 years taken place?
You will find that wherever there are people, there are wars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... %80%931499

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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by admin » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:51 am

britinchile wrote:Wow, you were lucky to come out of those close encounters alive!!

- You might have passed a terrorist on a train travelling in the opposite direction
- You visited places in Russia days before there were fake bomb threats
- You saw massive security in many places (but in the US you can’t enter a cinema without going through a gun detector).
- The security was tight in Frankfurt after the Las Vegas shooting – I fail to see how they could be related? The Germans are serious about security (which I don’t see that as a bad thing) plus what occurred to you has happened to me in a number of times in various places around the world, it’s been the norm for many years in numerous airports.

The chances of encountering or being involved in a terrorist attack are incredibly incredibly small, we’re talking in the thousandths of 1%. There is a much higher probability of getting shot by a gun lover on a visit to the US. You seem to have a strong anti-muslim prejudice but you could say the same about the crazy white guys in the US – I am sure that most of the white guys are good people, but how do you sort the “good” white guys from the “crazy” white guys? Something like 5% of the UK’s population is muslim and many muslims visit the UK – of course you are going to see them!

Most countries in Europe are on a different page - they have different cultures, languages and governments, what did you expect – the EU to have a magic solution to make everything standardized?
I think Russia’s issues are way over and above any tensions with the EU. I really can’t see WW3 coming from European infighting? I think you’re totally deluded with that assumption! If there is a WW3 the US will be heavily involved somewhere.

What a negative post – you seem to have a very negative mindset (I’m a forum lurker and have seen that for the years I’ve been viewing the forum), especially after what would appear to be an amazing trip! I just visited Europe for three weeks and had a blast, perhaps I wasn’t looking for things that aren’t actually there. I guess by your thinking I nearly died on Las Ramblas in Barcelona as I was there 10 days before the terrorist attack!

I would suggest that you stay in your bubble in the South of Chile as you will likely be safe there!
Your probably right that post overly focused on the negative things.

An hour after the terrorist attack in London, I told my wife I was still more concerned about being hit by a car in London. That is from personal experience. When I was 19, landed in london after like 15 hour flight, stepped off the curb, and a car hit me. Luckily it hit me square in the back, where my backpack was, picked me up and rolled me over the car hood. I landed on my feet. Kind of looked around to make sure I was still all in one piece, and just kept on walking. I just wanted to get some sleep. Some Jamaican guy jumped out just started yelling at me. I just waved, and said, "sorry". Later noticed the "look left" or "look right" signs stenciled in the cross-walks. I was not the first tourist to do that.

The interesting point was, exactly the statistical probability of getting so close to an active terrorist attack, having not been in England in over 25 years. That is like being hit by an asteroid, after being bit twice by the same shark, on two different continents.

I am not "anti-muslim" or "anti-black". Quick note to clarify, I don't use "african", because there are millions of black people in Europe that are about as african as I am. Their families have lived in Europe for generations, and not all of their family is from "Africa" (in the most recent sense of being from "africa"). Basically the same reason I find the use of "native american" to be a ridiculous politically loaded abuse of term to discriminate against people that are not of the "indigenous" groups prior to 15th century in north america. If you want to get really politically correct, call each tribe by their proper names; just be prepared for most people to not recognize what your talking about (e.g. Ojibwe, Lakota, Nakota, Dakota, Oglála, etc.) I use "Indian", because that is what all my "Indian" friends in north america use to refer to themselves when speaking broadly about hundreds of different groups that are outright nations that speak different languages and have very, very different cultures in North America. Talking about "Africans" is probably even more ridiculous in terms of the diversity of culture and language it is suppose to capture.

I do have particular bones to pick with Muslim culture; however, most of my issues with Muslim culture, apply to most major religions (e.g. treatment of women as property) and culture in general; but, in the broadest possibly terms, my issue is 'why do I have to tolerate your intolerance'?

To accept Muslim culture, in a blanket unquestioned fashion, is to endorse intolerance. It is to endorse the violation of others humans rights as being o.k.. It is to endorse treatment of women as property. Children as property. The right of a group to kill another group. The right of muslims to kill other muslims. Sorry, but have you read the Koran? The christen bible has more than few issues, including lots of mentions in passing about none-believers being less or it being o.k. to kill them; however the Koran is very, very explicit about killing, and a whole lot of other things that are things I can not accept as allowable behavior by anyone.

And that, right there, is the problem. It is endorsing discrimination, to not discriminate, against what is wrong, simply because it is justified on the grounds that it is someone else's culture or belief. Culture is not a golden calf.

Very few (and obviously not few enough), in this day and age, would endorse the Nazi killing of the Jews, simply because it was their "belief"; Or Lenin's purges, simply because well it was his communist belief; or, the U.S. slaughter of indigenous tribes, because it was their manifest destiny; or whatever other silliness that is justified by simply waving at culture or religion. It creates a certain intellectual laziness, that gives a pass to both the most shocking crimes in the history of humanity, and uncountable small misdemeanors that go on every day.

The reason I bring that up, in the context of evaluating the state of Europe, is exactly because, in spite of all their bla, bla, bla about human rights and equality in Europe; for the most part, they mean human rights and equality for mostly white people. To be even more specific, White men, followed by White women, and on a sliding scale as skin tone, hair color, and so on. My wife encountered it Europe. People's reaction to her was very noticeable at times on first encounter, and their change of behavior was even more noticeable when she explained she was from Chile. My wife is not even dark by Chilean or European standards (My wife is probably lighter skinned than 75% of the pop of Europe). Brown eyes, brown hair, and fairly light skinned. I however, for whatever reason, even if I said or did nothing, did not encounter that.

It is there, even if Europe would like to pretend it is not. However, the difference in Europe is it is public policy to pretend race issues do not exist.

In fact, here is a great article I came across, while in Germany recently, "Statistically speaking, black people in Germany don’t exist":
https://qz.com/1078032/can-germany-comb ... a-on-race/

That is where the danger is at. Ignoring race and culture issues, is what has gotten europe in to trouble, for generations. It is what sneaks up behind the politicians and bites them in the rear, before they even realize there is an issue and it is too late to do anything about it.

I think another way to put it. Europe needs to recognize, that Europe is different. That their differences, really are vast. Pretending they have more in common, than not in common, is a recipe for disaster.
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Re: Thoughts on the State of Europe

Post by admin » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:02 am

By the way, when we were in Itialy, it came to light that there had been an 85% drop in illegal migration from north Africa in one month.

Why such a big drop?

The European Union is paying the war lords, militias, and human traffickers in North Africa, to stop the migrants from coming to Europe. I am sure they are just giving them a blanket and warm cup of tea to convince the migrants not to go to Europe.

You see? "Human rights", by European standards, is more than a little fuzzy; as long as they don't have to get their hands dirty.
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