Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by admin » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:41 pm

Britkid wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:57 pm
The real elephant in the room is that China is a nasty dictatorship with no regard for human rights and that doing business with them supports that regime. Here is Last Week Tonight with a video on China (clocking in at 20 minutes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OubM8bD9kck
Yea, we need to stop supporting all those human rights abusing regimes around the world right now:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06- ... g-about-it

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JH1W6
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by admin » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:52 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:41 pm
Britkid wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:57 pm
The real elephant in the room is that China is a nasty dictatorship with no regard for human rights and that doing business with them supports that regime. Here is Last Week Tonight with a video on China (clocking in at 20 minutes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OubM8bD9kck
Yea, we need to stop supporting all those human rights abusing regimes around the world right now:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06- ... g-about-it

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JH1W6
Oh yea, and only support countries that are real democracies.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... n-in-2018/


https://theconversation.com/9-essential ... ring-98592

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-o ... story.html
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by HybridAmbassador » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:46 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:41 pm
Britkid wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:57 pm
The real elephant in the room is that China is a nasty dictatorship with no regard for human rights and that doing business with them supports that regime. Here is Last Week Tonight with a video on China (clocking in at 20 minutes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OubM8bD9kck
Yea, we need to stop supporting all those human rights abusing regimes around the world right now:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06- ... g-about-it

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JH1W6
I buy nothing made-in-Xi-Jingpin-country. There are so many other countries that manufacture goods for personal consumption. But sometime get taken by dubious brand name(s) such as "Japanese sounding" marques but once I dismantle the cover, there are signs all over inside that says these are PRC products and nothing to do with quality normally associated with Japan,Germany,or the US. Remember Tiananmen Massacre of 1989? The official PRC propaganda said only a few dozens killed but the in Beijing US embassy faxct shows more than 15k massacred! So till and that is a never to happen but one can only hope that, one day PRC will assimilate the rule of democratic countries and adapt to becoming one. Then will I start purchasing made-in-china merchandise..I will be dead a long time before that happens despite!
HybridAmbassador. Toyota Hybrid system for helping climate change.

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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by frozen-north » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:01 pm

admin wrote:
I'm sorry. What moron tries to open a manufactuting center for anything in chile that is part of a already saturated market in direct competition with china, india, etc? No way the cost of labor here is going to compete with the global market.
Global market?

There are reasons why manufacturing plants are opening in China. Labour standards, environmental regulations, .....

And those manufacturing plants not only have plenty of customers from around the world, they also have support from those wonderful *Western* brands, and those brands users:
21 Nov 2017
According to the Financial Times, students working at the Foxconn plant, as part of a three month “work experience” placement, were routinely working 11-hour days assembling the newest phone, breaking Chinese overtime laws in the process.

Li Qiang, the executive director of New York-based nonprofit China Labour Watch, said: “When Apple’s production demands it, Apple completely ignores the labour standards they have set."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nn-interns

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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by Britkid » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:09 pm

Gerrymandering is a serious issue in the US, so is the influence of corporate money and other issues. In the UK we also have various undemocratic factors such as the house of lords and the queen having to sign the bills. However the things that happen in Russia, China, Middle East etc are clearly much much worse.

it is an interesting point however that the US is more aggressive internaionally than say China. I didn't realize how many bombs were dropped. However whatever the rights or wrongs of the US bombing campaign it shouldn't really effect how we feel about China.

If something is bad, it's bad. The fact that something else is bad or that the person making the accusation of the bad is a hypocrit doesn't make the bad good.

Imagine I said to you admin: You killed a person yesterday. You should not have done that. (And assume it was true.)

And you replied: Ah, I saw that you killed TWO people yesterday, and in a more brutal way.

Yes that would make me a hypocrit, but it wouldn't make you justified to kill someone.

An accusation of hypocrisy is NOT a defence. In my somewhat silly example here we can see this clearly but in more subtle ways this plays out all of the time.

When someone tries to deflect away the discussion on to something else (e.g. ah but what about the carbon footprint of liberals like Al Gore's and Leonardo DiCaprio's) they are almost always in the wrong. It's done when something can't be defended, and it's an incredibly common and unhelpful dynamic.

As a general rule when someone says A is bad and another person says but what about B it means that the person saying A is bad is nearly always right.

If you think the US bombs make US product as bloody as Chinese ones, you may be right. I may be a hypocrit (although I doubt it since I think what China does to its own people is clearly morally worse than western bombing campaigns in the middle East) and maybe we should stop buying US products as well as Chinese ones. But none of that is a defence of our consumption of Chinese goods. Nothing that happens between the US and the Middle East can logically have any bearing on whether or not to trade with China.
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by admin » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:53 pm

Im not defending china, and xi scarres the hell out of me, but the current u.s. policy of containing or retarding china's economic development like it was the cold war is dangerious on so many levels.

If china's development stalls, there really be a domino effect that does not ends well for anyone.

An economic colapse in china, means a massive populated state with a massive nuclear armed military is out of control or worse.

A less badly behaving china on human right, democracy, freedom of speech, envirmont, and playing by international trade standards, etc, etc, is directly linked to chinas ability to follow through with its development. China has come a long way since Deng Xiaoping started the opening up process. They have done in a generation what took the u.s. 200+ years.

The problem is, once you start down that road with 1.4 billion people you cant stop or very bad things happen.

Look over the speed bumb, can you imagine the mess unleashed on the world if china became an argentina?

How about russia? What is going on in russia, would be mega disaster if it was in china.

India is the one that spooks me, and might be the preview of what a half developed china might look like.

It is sort of like a dilema where one can die on the street of a full fledged "democracy" of a completly curiable diese or a small possiblity of death in a "education" camp (if you try to challenge the party).

Neither is a particularly good choice.
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by passport » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:00 pm

Charles, can you say more about why you find India to be the most alarming?

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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by admin » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:31 pm

Well that is probably worthy of a whole forum alone.

But essentially you have a massive pop, with massive ethnic, religious, and social / economic devides, in a nuclear armed state, that is more or less a democacy.

It just has that fragil set of conditions for something upsetting the development apple cart, and things getting way out of control, way fast; all with multiplt hostile neighbors ready, willing, and able to exploit any instability.

Democracy, as we have seen through out history and across the world today, is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition, to become a developed country.
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by admin » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:45 pm

Look at pakistan. They are almost a failed state, if state even applies, as they dont even control much of the territory that is drawn on the map.

However, as big a mess pakistan is, they kind of sort of have a majority shared culture / religion /whatever. They are kind of sort of pointed the same direction, even if that is a bad direction.

Yes, i know that is a super over simplification. Way too complex a subject, and honestly not all that personally inerested in the subject, to give it the proper thought and treatment it deserves on a sunday morning.

More preoccupied with that de-developing country on the other side of the rio grand this morning.
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:45 pm

Under or not reported by the anti-Russian and anti-China Anglo MSM, India and Pakistan this past week joined SCO.

The World Transformed and No One in America Noticed
By Martin Sieff
Global Research, June 23, 2018
Strategic Culture Foundation 22 June 2018

The world transformed and nobody in the West noticed. India and Pakistan have joined the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. The 17 year-old body since its founding on June 15, 2001 has quietly established itself as the main alliance and grouping of nations across Eurasia. Now it has expanded from six nations to eight, and the two new members are the giant nuclear-armed regional powers of South Asia, India, with a population of 1.324 billion and Pakistan, with 193.2 million people (both in 2016).
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-world ... ed/5645114
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by Britkid » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:10 pm

admin wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:53 pm
A less badly behaving china on human right, democracy, freedom of speech, environment, and playing by international trade standards, etc, etc, is directly linked to chinas ability to follow through with its development.
Are you saying that improved human rights, democracy and freedom of speech would lead to some negative effects..? like perhaps reduced economic growth and less internal stability.

I don't believe this however it's a very difficult one to definitively answer one way or the other.

I also think freedom is very important. It must be awful having to live under opression. Even if a freer China would lead to higher risk of reduced stability and reduced economic growth (and therefore other bad things like reduced quality healthcare), I think I'd probably still be in favour of it.

Economic growth/development is not necessarily even a good thing now we have climate change and other environmental issues and expanding populations and limited resources.

I think societies with openness and truth will generally do better than one with lies and secrets.
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Re: Chinese corp. wants to build an electric car factory in Chile

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:27 pm

Actually not a bad article on the history of the Maersk plant in today's El Lider de San Antonio.
http://www.lidersanantonio.cl/impresa/2 ... l/8/texto/

Perhaps pure coincidence that the closure happened a day after the union won a case in court:
Previo a la huelga de 2017, sindicatos y empresa ya se habían enfrentado ante la justicia laboral. Después de aquel conflicto, cuando debían restablecerse las confianzas entre las partes, la distancia de ellas se acrecentó con una serie de demandas que los dirigentes interpusieron contra la compañía ante los tribunales. De hecho, el 13 de junio pasado el presidente del Sindicato N° 2, Alejandro Villatoro, reveló a Diario El Líder que habían ganado uno de los últimos casos por los que denunciaron a los ejecutivos de la fábrica.

Un día después de que aquel dirigente se mostrara conforme con el avance que esa causa judicial había tenido en los tribunales de San Antonio, Mcis citó a todos los trabajadores a una reunión extraordinaria en el gimnasio José Rojas Zamora. A las 17 horas comenzó esa cita y en sólo cinco minutos, el gerente general Ronnie Jensen les contó a sus empleados que se decretaba el cierre irreversible de la fábrica, que todos serían despedidos y que les pagarían sus respectivos finiquitos y que incluso recibirían más dinero de lo que establece la ley chilena.
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