Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

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Britkid
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Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by Britkid » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:36 pm

According to World Health Organization data on ultra-fine particles of less than 2.5 microns (PM2.5s), Coyhaique is the most polluted city in the Americas, with 64 micrograms per cubic metre. Well ahead of second placed Lima (48) and third placed La Paz (44). Santiago is at 29, which is still worse than most Latin American cities.

Major Western cities, seem to be a lot cleaner, in the range of 6 to 15.

Shanghai (52) and Beijing (85) are about where I would have expected in relation to Santiago.

However, what I didn't realize is that there are many cities in the Middle East, Asia and Africa that have far worse air pollution even than China. (100-200) range with Zabol, Iran topping the list at 217!

What does surprise me a bit is that there are so many Western cities full of cars with low ratings, even compact, European cities where there have to be more cars per unit area, whereas cities in poor countries have a higher pollution level. If it's thought that cars and wood heating should be causing the pollution, right, so why are poor (less cars per person), hot countries (that won't require much heating, or none at all) so polluted.

Coyhaique seems to be a bit like Santiago, mostly surrounded by mountains so hard for the pollution to get blown away. In Coyhaique, the mountains are even closer in than Santiago. La Paz makes sense as well, because of that bowl shape. Lima, not so sure whether pollution would get trapped there but it seemed quite a smoggy city, with still air, when I visited once.

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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by Britkid » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:49 pm

Found this on WHO site:

Q
What are some of the major sources or causes of urban
ambient air pollution?

A
Both 'mobile' sources (i.e. cars) and 'stationary' sources (i.e. smoke stacks)
make significant contributions to urban ambient (outdoor)
air pollution. Some of the major sources include exhaust fumes from vehicles,
emissions from manufacturing facilities (e.g.factories) and power generation
(e.g. smoke stacks of coal fired power plants). Also in those cities where residential use of coal and wood for cooking and heating is
permitted, the emissions from households using these fuels can make an important contribution to the
levels of ambient air pollution.

Still doesn't quite up. I guess cars in poor countries are more like to be old bangers not looked after properly still being kept on the road, whereas in rich countries most of the cars are under 10 years ago, so have better mpg and reduced pollution. Still, that can't explain all of it.

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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by admin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:03 am

Coyhaique????

Let's see if this literally passes the smell test.

Population, not sure, but not very much. It is essentially one of the smallest cities in the country, in one of the most unpopulated regions in the world. More like town.

Not really in a valley (mostly above the river) nor tight up against mountains like santiago or mexico city, or well hundreds of much larger cities in the americas.

How many days a year does it rain there?

How much wind do they get?

There are about 100 other towns or cities in chile i can think of that are way more likly canidates for worse in the americas, and i can think of dozen outside of chile that are worse than all of them. Like 30 mins in guatemala city, i would blow my nose, and it would be black with polution.

Pleasssssse

Some one needs to go clean the political filters on their air monitoring equipment.
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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by admin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:12 am

More.

No major industries.

No dessert nearby.

Next major source of particle polution up wind is australia.

Naaa, soooo stupid someone better dig up some pretty impressive evidence before that is worth giving the time of day.
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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by admin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:17 am

By the way, cars can be older in the duty free zone of the patigonia, but there are only like one per km. Have you seen the pieces of crap they allow in the roads across most countries the americas?

The ones in chile are really new by comparison.

Even the airport is in a diffrent valley like an hour out of town, and it only gets at best a handful of airplanes a day.

Last time i was there i also recal they were installing windfarms. Where are they hiding the coal fired power plants?
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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by admin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:58 am

I just seen this news piece the other day about a town in Brazil, filled with chemical plants, where it rains acid so strong it will burn your skin. That is somehow less polluted?

You know from time to time I see these rankings, where Chile is the worst at this, or the worst at that in the World. The problem is many of the competing countries and cities are so corrupt or under developed, you can't trust the data; and I bet a large majority in the america's don't even monitor anything. I think Chile get's ranked badly in a lot of cases in these international lists, simply because they report at all. Bejing for example. The government is notorious for under reporting or falsifying data about their pollution. The foreign embassies, that monitor the air in Bejing, have totally different measurements.
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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by frozen-north » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:10 am

admin wrote:
I just seen this news piece the other day about a town in Brazil, filled with chemical plants, where it rains acid so strong it will burn your skin. That is somehow less polluted?

You know from time to time I see these rankings, where Chile is the worst at this, or the worst at that in the World. The problem is many of the competing countries and cities are so corrupt or under developed, you can't trust the data; and I bet a large majority in the america's don't even monitor anything. I think Chile get's ranked badly in a lot of cases in these international lists, simply because they report at all. Bejing for example. The government is notorious for under reporting or falsifying data about their pollution. The foreign embassies, that monitor the air in Bejing, have totally different measurements.
As admin already mentioned, pollution is not just air pollution, and air pollution is not just particulates. So, to call one place 'The Most Polluted City in the Americas' just by looking at one particular thing is absurd.

For those to like to look at lists:
Database of World’s Polluted Sites Is Now Online

For more than a decade now, Pure Earth has been training and sending investigators out across the world’s worst polluted places to identify, assess and map contaminated sites that pose a health risk to communities. The effort, part of our Toxic Sites Identification Program (TSIP), has produced the largest database of polluted sites of its kind. Now, this important trove of data is available online at www.contaminatedsites.org.

http://www.pureearth.org/blog/global-database/

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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by at46 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:42 am

frozen-north wrote: As admin already mentioned, pollution is not just air pollution, and air pollution is not just particulates. So, to call one place 'The Most Polluted City in the Americas' just by looking at one particular thing is absurd.

For those to like to look at lists:
Database of World’s Polluted Sites Is Now Online

For more than a decade now, Pure Earth has been training and sending investigators out across the world’s worst polluted places to identify, assess and map contaminated sites that pose a health risk to communities. The effort, part of our Toxic Sites Identification Program (TSIP), has produced the largest database of polluted sites of its kind. Now, this important trove of data is available online at http://www.contaminatedsites.org.

http://www.pureearth.org/blog/global-database/
The Database of World's Polluted Sites is a deceptive name - it states right on their home page "The Toxic Sites Identification Program (TSIP) works to locate and assess contaminated sites in low- and middle-income countries". As if Canada/US, Western Europe or Fukushima had nothing to do with pollution.

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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by Spudzilla » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:34 pm

I dont have any problem with the statistic quoted by WHO, but in all likelyhood the air quality was sampled in the winter. The air quality is horrendous in Coyhaique in the heating season. The cause of the pollution is not automobiles, or coal plants, but the habit of burning leña verde. You cant even see Coyhaique from the mirador west of town when they really get cranking.

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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by admin » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:59 pm

yea the wood smoke is bad, but Coyhaique is some how worse than Temuco, Concepcion, <insert any city in southern Chile with a more than 100,000 people>?

It is somehow worse than any number of cities across the america's located in a desert?

It is somehow worse than any number of cities with millions of people and uncontrolled industrial pollution?

It is worse than Santiago?

That is the other thing that does not square with this bullshit. The number of people?

Chernobyl might be one of the most polluted places on earth, but no one worries too much about that city because no one lives there. A highly contaminated city is bad, but it is only as bad as the number of people exposed.

Somewhere in the Americas, some politician, responsible for air quality of millions of people in their city, get's a pass because some postage stamp of a town in the Patagonia pushed them off the top 10 most polluted list.
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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by 41southchile » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:20 am

I don't know if it's worse his year or I just forget about it each year, as I dont live in the toxic pit that is any urban area in southern Chile in fall/winter, so I dont have to deal with it. Seriously though it is foul and toxic the wood smoke in Puerto Varas and Puerto Montt this year. It seeps into your car when you get into the city, you walk outside for 5 minutes and your hair and clothes stink, it makes your eyes water. Even when it rains it's still in the air, when there is a frost and high pressure the air quality doesn't improve all day.
I saw in the local news they are planning to sit around and have a talk feast and maybe in 2020 they will have a plan about what they should do going forward. In other words nothing is going to improve for the next 20 or 30 years, these things take decades to sort out. Christchurch in New Zealand in the 80s and 90s had the same issues, only now in the last couple of years are they starting to see some progress and success from polices introduced, its been a long road, which makes me think this will never be sorted in Puerto Montt etc.
It's not only the poor who have shitty insulation and use green wood, because some of the most dirty belching chimneys are from houses that are clearly not short of pesos .
Like a lot of things here I guess that they just fail to realize the consequences of their not giving a shit. Anyway if you are thinking of moving to Chile, do not move to any urban area in southern Chile unless you dont mind bad air quality for half the year, a few kms out of town is normally fine, due to less houses.
https://www.soychile.cl/Puerto-Montt/So ... Varas.aspx
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Re: Coyhaique Most Polluted City in the Americas

Post by mem » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:31 am

41southchile wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:20 am
I don't know if it's worse his year or I just forget about it each year, as I dont live in the toxic pit that is any urban area in southern Chile in fall/winter, so I dont have to deal with it. Seriously though it is foul and toxic the wood smoke in Puerto Varas and Puerto Montt this year. It seeps into your car when you get into the city, you walk outside for 5 minutes and your air and clothes stink, it makes your eyes water. Even when it rains it's still in the air, when there is a frost and high pressure the air quality doesn't improve all day.
I saw in the local news they are planning to sit around and have a talk feast and maybe in 2020 they will have a plan about what they should do going forward. In other words nothing is going to improve for the next 20 or 30 years, these things take decades to sort out. Christchurch in New Zealand in the 80s and 90s had the same issues, only now in the last couple of years are they starting to see some progress and success from polices introduced, its been a long road, which makes me think this will never be sorted in Puerto Montt etc.
It's not only the poor who have shitty insulation and use green wood, because some of the most dirty belching chimneys are from houses that are clearly not short of pesos .
Like a lot of things here I guess that they just fail to realize the consequences of their not giving a shit. Anyway if you are thinking of moving to Chile, do not move to any urban area in southern Chile unless you dont mind bad air quality for half the year, a few kms out of town is normally fine, due to less houses.
https://www.soychile.cl/Puerto-Montt/So ... Varas.aspx
Yes good advice. Not a joke at all about all the sardine living city smoke and yes small town people burning wet wood at creosote forming temperature.
It is amazing how there is no smoke coming from a chimney that is burning hot and with properly dried firewood.

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