The State of the States

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Vicki and Greg Lansen
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Post by Vicki and Greg Lansen » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:47 pm

And, you are right about a poor administration not necessarily equating deceit. However, you can have both, as evidence by the past eight years.

Vicki

RWS
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Re: Reasons US went to war?

Post by RWS » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:40 pm

Gloria wrote:. . . . "let your passion come to the surface" Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Agreed.
Definition of crapola: rubbish, nonsense.
Not so. Don't tell me, Gloria, after having lived in the States many years that you really think that that is the definition!

Let me be clear, as I think that Gloria and Vicki, both of whom I like and whose comments I've generally found interesting and informative, have missed my point.

My views on the current war and the current federal administration may be very similar to theirs. But I recognize that the war may have (note, before another misinterpretation, the verb form: "may have", not "did") resulted from misinformation received more than from a desire to mislead. Look, I've worked in that field: I know that gathering intelligence is very, very difficult and that the task is made more difficult by the legal and other restraints under which that "community" is obliged to labor.

Second, expression of one's "passion" is much more persuasive when presented eloquently (which, of course, can be very simple: think of the Gettysburg Address). When vulgar words and ad hominem attacks are substituted, the reader is repulsed and has scant choice but to believe that the writer is either ill-informed or unintelligent. I don't want to believe that any AllChilean is either.

suizo
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Post by suizo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:42 pm

RWS wrote:Do I believe that the conclusion was reached in good faith? Yes.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/ wrote:(..)That source, an Iraqi defector who had never been debriefed by the CIA, was known within the intelligence community as "Curveball."(..)
(..)Tenet called Powell to tell him the claims about mobile bioweapons labs were apparently not true.(..)
Definition about the "Curveball" mentioned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafid_Ahmed_Alwan
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/washington/27intel.html?ex=1335326400&en=e6f2a5232d75afb5&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss wrote:“There was never a serious debate that I know of within the administration about the imminence of the Iraqi threat,” Mr. Tenet writes(..)

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JHyre
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Hardly Conclusive

Post by JHyre » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:21 pm

A few lines from Tenet are hardly conclusive, nor do they tell the whole story or establish any context. Bob Woodward, no friend of this administration or of Republicans in general concluded in one of his books that Bush was bending over backwards to not influence the intel....and Tenet has ample motive to cast aspersions, as it was his outfit under his tenure that fell down on the job.

John Hyre

carlos
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Re: Reasons US went to war?

Post by carlos » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:26 pm

Vicki and Greg Lansen wrote:Carlos, if you believe the crapola you just wrote...If I have offended anyone by being "vulgar" let me apologize for that. I could have tempered my words, or simply chosen more appropriate ones. However, my feelings are very strong...So, again, I apologize if I let my anger spill over into my post and offended anyone.
Apology accepted Vicki. I like interacting with people that have strong feelings about various topics Vicki. Honest, I do. That is one thing I dislike about where I am living now. People here don't feel strongly about much of anything at all...in fact they are generally rather passive. I suppose you could say that my Chilean blood causes me to be more desirous of discussing passionate positions on various topics.

Regarding what you said Vicki...you didn't offend me Vicki. It's just that so often I have had dealings with those in the Internet that elevate personal opinion to fact and who start slinging mud at me if I state a disagreement (however nicely I do) that maybe I over-reacted to what you said myself. I likewise apologize for any over-reaction on my part Vicki.

Vicki...I must commend you for having taken the initiative to apologize. That shows maturity and humility despite having strong sentiment contrary to views that I expressed. Good of you.

Carlos

carlos
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Post by carlos » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:30 pm

Gloria wrote:From RWS "I'll but add that the vulgarity of this post surprised me,"
GIVEEEEE MEEEEE A BREAKKKKK!!!!
Calmate Gloria. Calmate.

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MikieO
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Post by MikieO » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:00 am

Back to the economy.................
Here in So Cal, as a company, we are busier than we've ever been. Three large projects on the go at the moment. Not far away from the beach however, things are tough.
House prices have plummeted even though the Assoc of realtors list price declines as "modest".
Several local big builders of tract homes are filing BK, a good buddy who's a developer has several banks after him because of deals that have just evaporated.
The big V8 and V10 trucks are just sitting on the car lots. With gas at $3.05 a gallon, my buddy is taking the Chevy pickup away from his wife and putting her in a hybrid!
Personally I think that labour costs will begin to decline in the near future as competition for the few jobs heats up. All this while we suffer through huge inflation. Something's gotta give.
It'll be interesting what the "candidates" (Diebold shoo ins) have to say about the amnesty when citizens are unemployed in record numbers.

RWS
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Post by RWS » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:20 am

MikieO wrote:. . . . It'll be interesting what the "candidates" (Diebold shoo ins) have to say about the amnesty when citizens are unemployed in record numbers.
Hey, give the amnestied illegals the vote and who'll care about the disenfranchised erstwhile citizens!

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MikieO
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Post by MikieO » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:03 am

true, those unemployed bums don't even pay taxes anymore!

carlos
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Post by carlos » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:55 am

I don't know if I would call them unemployed bums since I think they are neither. In other words they are not unemployed and they are not bums of the type that sit around and panhandle for money.

Incidentally I don't know if the problem of illegal aliens in the U.S. can be solved until companies and individuals stop hiring them. If no one gave them work there would be no problem with illegal aliens to speak of! But homeowners use them all the time to cut their grass, do renovations, or whatever and businesses hire them because they will work for cheap. Stop the hiring and you stop illegal aliens.

American's are cutting their own throat with this problem in the sense that for all the talk against illegal aliens, American's continue to hire them.

Carlos

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MikieO
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Post by MikieO » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:52 am

Hi Carlos, without belaboring the point, you've missed a little humor.

carlos
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Post by carlos » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:27 am

MikieO wrote:Hi Carlos, without belaboring the point, you've missed a little humor.
Sorry MikieO :). It's awefully hard to tell when someone says something in a humorous way over the Internet sometimes. There's no body language, facial expressions, tonal voice intonations, or otherwise. Just the written word.

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