Leaving Chile

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Andres
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 2696
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:09 am
Location: in transit

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by Andres » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:45 pm

Thanks for the good wishes from several people.
jamie_m wrote:What tipped you over the edge if you don't mind me asking?
I came to Chile from Australia so I could establish an alternative financial base, because in my opinion there will be a severe international downturn brought on by the excesses of governments abusing their fiat currencies, and I reckon Chile will be affected less than Australia.

I expected to take a two to five years to establish viable business interests in Chile, then be free to travel between the two countries.

I made little progress in two years.

The dysfunction and bureaucracy I encounter in Chile is NOT my principal reason for leaving. I lived and worked in countries whose governments and societies were much more dysfunctional than Chile. But, in those countries, I had the ability to detect when issues existed, investigate those issues and resolve those issues because I could read the laws, regulations, contracts and speak with people in order to debug those issues by correcting their actions or taking action myself. It was difficult to get things done, but at least it was possible for me to be pro-active about issues which arose, and more possible for me to adjust to the cultures in those countries.

Here in Chile I can not do that. I am entirely dependent upon others. I have little control over my destiny.

I am an active person. I like to do and experience things in my personal and professional/business life. Perhaps I could live in Chile if I was docile and did nothing. But I can't tolerate having to sit around for weeks or months waiting for others to accomplish things (or NOT accomplish them) because I can not resolve them myself.

My experience with the Chilean government is that, even if I research their laws and regulations, they rarely follow them. Yes, it is true that this is rarely due to corruption and more likely due to incompetence, ignorance or cultural fear of making a decision (even when shown a regulation/policy published by their govt supports the decision). But, even if there is a legal recourse for their action or inaction, my dependence on others and my inability to understand legal documents and proceedings makes accomplishing anything a costly, long-term, unpredictable nightmare. (Incorrect denial of my permanent resident visa application is one of several incidents.)

Imagine the difficulty I would have if there is a personal (civil) legal dispute which must be resolved, whether because of a mistake I made or because someone is attempting to scam me or a business I own. I would be almost defenceless.

And try resolving a simple day-to-day customer service issue with a Chilean on the phone when you do not have mastery of the language. It is almost impossible. We all know how often that is necessary!

If I intended to do almost nothing in Chile I might be able to tolerate such a lifestyle, but that is not me.

After two years, I have spent a lot of money and time accomplishing almost nothing. At the age of sixty, I do not want to spend a decade or more attempting to learn enough of the language to resolve issues directly.

Maybe I would feel differently if I found a sincere, loyal, competent Chilean business partner with whom I could develop businesses, but three (not related) people who (in separate potential arrangements) said they wanted to work with me to create businesses all turned out to be flakes and did not invest any time or effort into starting the businesses. All talk, no action.

In my opinion, there will be more issues to resolve in Australia than in Chile, but at least in Australia I will have a chance of resolving them effectively instead of having to live a passive life at the effect of others' whims in Chile.

So, I'm out of here!
(I might check out some other country(s) after I recover emotionally, financially and my fitness.)
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

svergas
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:03 pm

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by svergas » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:55 pm

Andres

Good luck with going back to Australia.

I also came to Chile 1.5 years ago with family and at that time did not know if Chile is permanent or temporary
but after experiencing few things that you did none of my money is getting transferred to Chile and we are already looking for way out.
Within next 12 month we will be moving on.

Cheers and good luck.

jamie_m
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 703
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Location: Santiago

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by jamie_m » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:09 pm

Best of luck in Australia and all future endeavors. You have helped many during your time here, me included, and for that i am grateful. I still have an email you wrote me before i left Australia, i still refer to it for both info and a giggle. Take care mate.

Donnybrook
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:34 am
Location: Santiago, Chile

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by Donnybrook » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:36 pm

I can see that the whole underpinning of the life you wanted to create didn't work. I admire you for giving it a try. I'll keep working on that bit of the wiki, promise. Best of luck so, Andres. I hope things go well for you in Australia.

Gloria
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Location: Región de los Ríos

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by Gloria » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:39 pm

Andres wrote:Thanks for the good wishes from several people.

I came to Chile from Australia so I could establish an alternative financial base, because in my opinion there will be a severe international downturn brought on by the excesses of governments abusing their fiat currencies, and I reckon Chile will be affected less than Australia.

I expected to take a two to five years to establish viable business interests in Chile, then be free to travel between the two countries.

I made little progress in two years.

The dysfunction and bureaucracy I encounter in Chile is NOT my principal reason for leaving. I lived and worked in countries whose governments and societies were much more dysfunctional than Chile. But, in those countries, I had the ability to detect when issues existed, investigate those issues and resolve those issues because could read the laws, regulations, contracts and speak with people in order to debug those issues by correcting their actions or taking action myself. It was difficult to get things done, but at least it was possible for me to be pro-active about issues which arose.

Here in Chile I can not do that. I am entirely dependent upon others. I have little control over my destiny.

I am an active person. I like to do and experience things in my personal and professional/business life. Perhaps I could live in Chile if I was docile and did nothing. But I can't tolerate having to sit around for weeks or months to wait for others to accomplish things (or NOT accomplish them) because I can not resolve them myself.

My experience with the Chilean government is that, even if I research their laws and regulations, they rarely follow them. Yes, it is true that this is rarely due to corruption and more likely due to incompetence, ignorance or cultural fear of making a decision (even when shown a regulation/policy published by their govt supports the decision). But, even if there is a legal recourse for their action or inaction, my dependence on others and my inability to understand legal documents and proceedings makes accomplishing anything a costly, long-term, unpredictable nightmare. (Incorrect denial of my permanent resident visa application is one of several incidents.)

Imagine the difficulty I would have if there is a personal (civil) legal dispute which must be resolved, whether because of a mistake I made or because someone is attempting to scam me or a business I own. I would be almost defenceless.

And try resolving a simple day-to-day customer service issue with a Chilean on the phone when you do not have mastery of the language. It is almost impossible. We all know how often that is necessary!

If I intended to do almost nothing in Chile I might be able to tolerate such a lifestyle, but that is not me.

After two years, I have spent a lot of money and time accomplishing almost nothing. At the age of sixty, I do not want to spend a decade or more attempting to learn enough of the language to resolve issues directly.

Maybe I would feel differently if I found a sincere, loyal, competent Chilean business partner with whom I could develop businesses, but three (not related) people who (in separate potential arrangements) said they wanted to work with me to create businesses all turned out to be flakes and did not invest any time or effort into starting the businesses. All talk, no action.

In my opinion, there will be more issues to resolve in Australia than in Chile, but at least in Australia I will have a chance of resolving them effectively instead of having to live a passive life at the effect of others' whims in Chile.

So, I'm out of here!
(I might check out some other country(s) after I recover emotionally, financially and my fitness.)
I'll add my name to the list of well- wishers. Without a doubt you are a brave man, no question about it and I truly wish your return to Australia be an easy one. I hope your valuable experience be a lesson for so many dreamers that come to this country thinking......"how hard can it be". It has been and still is for me after almost 6 years and I was born here! The very best to you.
I'm from the generation of common sense, wisdom and unfiltered answers. I sayeth as I seeth.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Leaving Chile

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:27 pm

Thanks for the wiki work that everyone else (including me) let fall to the wayside. Your contributions outweigh what you probably acquired from the forum. You gave it a serious go and I respect your wisdom in calling it quits before getting sucked in over your head further.

Tip back a couple and begin a new plan.

Suerte.

----E, the southern 5th Region coast, but currently writing this from LALA land
Generally, just a SPAM KILLER. You are on your own in this forum. My personal mission here is done.

BUT when necessary, by way of ridicule and truth revelation we shalt do war.

--eeuunikkeiexpat

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hlf2888
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Re: Leaving Chile

Post by hlf2888 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:57 pm

Andres, I am sorry that you are leaving, you have contributed so much to this forum.

I totally empathize with your frustration with getting things done. I think the Chilean mindset might be more like water than any other element and that helps them get around the obstacle course that is life in Chile. When I first arrived here with my North American mindset which was more like metal or wood, I became very frustrated with the never ending obstacles and would fume and fret and get very unhappy. In North America I could maintain my metal/wood mindset and demand that the obstacle be removed. Here I watched the Chilean people go around obstacles instead of confronting them, like water going around a boulder in a stream. Slowly I am learning to become more like water. It is impossible to move here and maintain the mindset from another country. The metal and wood worked in North America, but not here. Once I let go of that old mindset, life here became better. The price of staying in Chile, I think, is that one must change fundamentally. Otherwise one is driven to despair by frustration and then, driven away.

As Bruce Lee said " Be Like water making it's way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves."

El Lechero
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Re: Leaving Chile

Post by El Lechero » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:25 pm

All the best back in Oz Andres and can totally understand your decision and where you are coming from, thanks for all your work and advice/comments on here. Cheers

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JHyre
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Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by JHyre » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:38 am

Andres,

Best of luck. You had a hard & honorable go at it, just not a good fit. Thank you also for all you did on this forum, it'd be less than what it is had you not been here.

John Hyre

Andres
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Re: Leaving Chile

Post by Andres » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:02 am

hlf2888 wrote:. . . Here I watched the Chilean people go around obstacles instead of confronting them, like water going around a boulder in a stream. Slowly I am learning to become more like water. It is impossible to move here and maintain the mindset from another country.
I have no disagreement with your approach, but (in my opinion) a good understanding of the language is necessary to implement it.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

CPATX
Rank: Chile Forum Full Member
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Location: Austin, TX

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by CPATX » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:36 pm

Andres,

If you had been fluent in Spanish/Chilean, would you have made the same choice of leaving or do you think you could have made things work for you within your intended time frame?

frozen-north
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:28 am

Re: Leaving Chile

Post by frozen-north » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:55 pm

Andres,

I would like to thank you for a wonderfully thoughtful post.

There were so many things that came to my mind that I did not know what to say. I thought of 'sandrab' and also of the sad experience of those that have to flee into exile, because one impression I got is that you are very glad to have the option to move away, in this case to return.

Best luck in your future.

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