TPP and the Pacific Alliance

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john
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:43 pm

admin wrote:Oh, the other thing that my wife does a lot is act as an expert witness in U.S. courts. She can not practice law, but she provides expert witness testimony on Chilean law, when the U.S. courts are trying understand or interpret certain provisions of Chilean law. Lot's of child custody, procedures, and so on, that U.S. courts need to deal with.

The funny one was my wife acted as an expert witness in a U.S. trial a few years ago regarding the legality of voluntary depositions in Chile, done for example by teleconference or other means for U.S. courts. Most attorneys in Chile don't even know what that is, and assume it is illegal to do, even on a voluntarily basis. My wife made the case, that among many other things, it was both legal and a matter of free speech. Chilean law has no standing to say who you can and can not speak to in regards to a foreign court or anyone else for that matter. That is between the foreign court and the individual. Obviously the foreign court has no real practical means to force someone to testify or cooperate, but there is nothing in Chilean law to stop some one from voluntarily providing testimony. So, essentially she was providing a deposition, about the legality of providing a deposition, from Chile for a U.S. court.

Now I guess that is starting to make its rounds to the legal journals and such, as we are getting calls from other U.S. attorneys with cases involving Chile where the opposition is claiming it is illegal to do at all. Kind of sort of set a precedent in U.S. courts, without her being a U.S. attorney.
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john
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:01 pm

admin wrote:
john wrote: [ANNEX I: Schedule of Chile] It effectively rules out most (if not all) foreign nationals from being able to practise law in Chile based on my interpretation of its following text: Only Chilean and foreign nationals with residence in Chile, who have completed the totality of their legal studies in Chile, shall be authorized to practice as lawyers. Sounds like good news for Spencer Global Chile. :wink:
actually, that is no different that most of the treaties Chile enters, or most other countries for that matter.

For example, we are allowed to work in the United States (just not practice U.S. law), and have U.S. licensed attorneys fly in to Chile for meetings, court cases and lot's of other things; but, they are not allowed to practice in terms of providing legal advice regarding Chilean law, make appearances in court, and so on, without a Chilean attorney, or, for us having a U.S attorney acting as the attorney of record in the States. We simply act as advisors / consultants regarding aspects of Chilean law, to the attorney in the U.S.

Normally not a problem, as one countries attorney is simply incapable of providing services in any coherent way related to the other countries laws. Most of our work involving the United States, is a U.S. law firm or attorney contacts us to handle the Chilean end of the work; or, the other way around; everyone sticks to what what they are specialist in.

Not all that different than say an tax attorney hiring a trial or criminal defense attorney in the U.S., to handle what they specialize in.

You need to look under the trade in services section for the general provisions, then the exclusions in the Chilean specific notes:
Legal Services
9. The Parties recognise that transnational legal services that cover the laws of multiple
jurisdictions play an essential role in facilitating trade and investment and in promoting
economic growth and business confidence.
10. If a Party regulates or seeks to regulate foreign lawyers and transnational legal
practice, the Party shall encourage its relevant bodies to consider, subject to its laws and
regulations, whether or in what manner:
(a) foreign lawyers may practise foreign law on the basis of their right to practise
that law in their home jurisdiction;
(b) foreign lawyers may prepare for and appear in commercial arbitration,
conciliation and mediation proceedings;
(c) local ethical, conduct and disciplinary standards are applied to foreign lawyers
in a manner that is no more burdensome for foreign lawyers than the
requirements imposed on domestic (host country) lawyers;
(d) alternatives for minimum residency requirements are provided for foreign
lawyers, such as requirements that foreign lawyers disclose to clients their
status as a foreign lawyer, or maintain professional indemnity insurance or
alternatively disclose to clients that they lack that insurance;
(e) the following modes of providing transnational legal services are
accommodated:
(i) on a temporary fly-in, fly-out basis;
(ii) through the use of web-based or telecommunications technology;
(iii) by establishing a commercial presence; and
Subject to Legal Review in English, Spanish and French
for Accuracy, Clarity and Consistency
Subject to Authentication of English, Spanish and French Versions
10-13
(iv) through a combination of fly-in, fly-out and one or both of the other
modes listed in subparagraphs (ii) and (iii);
(f) foreign lawyers and domestic (host country) lawyers may work together in the
delivery of fully integrated transnational legal services; and
(g) a foreign law firm may use the firm name of its choice.
Thanks for the clarifying information. However, the wording in ANNEX I: Schedule of Chile, appears to set a very high bar for a foreign national (who is resident in Chile, but not a citizen) to practice law in Chile...does your wife have a different interpretation?
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--- Bertrand Russell

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admin
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:17 am

Not sure what you are talking about, but that is kind of irrelevant on a practical level. By the time anyone finished 6 years of law school, completed their internship, and was accepted by the supreme court in Chile to practice, they would qualify for citizenship anyway.
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john
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:31 am

admin wrote:Not sure what you are talking about, but that is kind of irrelevant on a practical level. By the time anyone finished 6 years of law school, completed their internship, and was accepted by the supreme court in Chile to practice, they would qualify for citizenship anyway.
Sorry I wasn't more clear. Your comments indicate that the requirements to practice law in Chile are more stringent than they are in the US. For example, it is not mandatory that permanent residents of the US have a law degree from a US law school to practice law in the US...but they are required to pass the State Bar Exam in the state in which they plan to practice law.
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Rhodolite
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by Rhodolite » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:45 am

According to an article in Slate, 2 August 2014, only 4 of the united states allow people to sit for the bar exam without attending law school. An additional 3 states allow those with a combination of one or two years of law school (non-graduates) plus internship to sit for the bar exam.

john
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:07 pm

Rhodolite wrote:According to an article in Slate, 2 August 2014, only 4 of the united states allow people to sit for the bar exam without attending law school. An additional 3 states allow those with a combination of one or two years of law school (non-graduates) plus internship to sit for the bar exam.
But all of the states allow a law school graduate (from any US accredited foreign law school) to practice law in the US, predicated on passing the state bar exam.
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

Andres
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by Andres » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:50 am

Not that we didn't know this already:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... m3g9w.html

The (Australian) Productivity Commission has been strongly critical of the provisions saying that they turn so-called free trade agreements into "preferential" agreements.
The Partnership also requires members to sign up to tough intellectual property provisions and to submit to investor-state dispute settlement procedures administered by outside tribunals.
World Trade Online says the negotiating parties are planning to sign the agreement in New Zealand on February 4. It says Chile has confirmed the date and some trade ministers have already made arrangements to travel to Auckland, but it says New Zealand has yet to issue formal invitations.

The article is entitled
"Trans-Pacific Partnership will barely benefit Australia, says World Bank report"

It also says
"The study explains that highly developed nations such as Australia are either relatively reliant on things other than trade for economic growth or are already fairly free of trade restrictions.
Australia and the United States benefit the least from the Trans-Pacific Partnership."

+++++
I question the World Bank's conclusions.
Knowing the US, they will use TPP to attack any economic challenge to their corporates' hegemony. I think they will benefit much more than is realized . . . until the government collapses, of course.
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by HybridAmbassador » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:00 pm

The TPP barely benefits AUSTRALIA but relying on Chinese money as ever, then everything would be OK for AU.
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john
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:07 pm

In the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "It ain't over till it's over". :?:

Ambitious TPP trade deal signed
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35480600
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Andres
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by Andres » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:56 am

A sad day.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

john
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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:24 am

Andres wrote:A sad day.
On that we agree. :)
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--- Bertrand Russell

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Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by Andres » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:51 am

Covert changes to TPP outside the negotiation process:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/02/s ... -penalties

Fascism at its finest.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

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