TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Anything at all (keep it clean) goes here that does not fit in to any of the other forums.

Moderator: eeuunikkeiexpat

HybridAmbassador
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 3804
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:19 pm

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by HybridAmbassador » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:56 pm

If Obama can not convince US congress on the just agreed 12 nation TPP decision, then all bets are off ?
How likely is this scenario could become real? Then if, PRC would be jumpin' up and down in joy..!
Party speaker for PRC just announced displeasure about Obama saying, we can not allow a country "like China"
dictate the rules of business in the world !
HybridAmbassador. Toyota Hybrid system for helping climate change.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17363
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:42 pm

john wrote:
papageno wrote:Any Forumites following the International Monetary Fund meetings in Lima?
My understanding is that the IMF meetings have concluded. Here are a couple of related reports:

IMF: Beware third storm brewing
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... 17&ref=rss

IMF, World Bank meetings conclude in Peru
http://www.jamestownsun.com/news/nation ... clude-peru
That third storm article was pretty good. Also why the U.S. has so many emerging markets over the barrel on passing the TPP, or so it seems. The rush to the dollar, might reverse just as fast. Anyway, likly a better subject for the 700 to the peso thread.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

papageno
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:46 pm
Location: Colorado & Puerto Varas

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by papageno » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:53 pm

Did you notice that offhand comment about "....policymakers banning cash..."? One wonders whether the author considered the implications. The context indicates it could be a response to the public stashing cash under the mattress in response to negative interest rates. Does that sound like a bank run? How might the concept play out in Chile, where access to banking services is already limited?

ocum_et_temuco
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:35 pm

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by ocum_et_temuco » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:21 am

papageno wrote:Did you notice that offhand comment about "....policymakers banning cash..."? One wonders whether the author considered the implications. The context indicates it could be a response to the public stashing cash under the mattress in response to negative interest rates. Does that sound like a bank run? How might the concept play out in Chile, where access to banking services is already limited?
sounds like a reference to the "bail ins" (similar to "bail outs") but as in Cyprus, personal bank accounts were frozen so that the cash strapped bank could help themselves to customer's money

GJJIM
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 712
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:33 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by GJJIM » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:27 am

ocum_et_temuco wrote:
papageno wrote:Did you notice that offhand comment about "....policymakers banning cash..."? One wonders whether the author considered the implications. The context indicates it could be a response to the public stashing cash under the mattress in response to negative interest rates. Does that sound like a bank run? How might the concept play out in Chile, where access to banking services is already limited?
sounds like a reference to the "bail ins" (similar to "bail outs") but as in Cyprus, personal bank accounts were frozen so that the cash strapped bank could help themselves to customer's money
This happened in Argentina at the turn of the century -- IIRC they called it by a cute-sounding name el corralito, but it was the same bank/savings account money grab. Don't worry about the U.S. Congress stopping the TPP, Obama and Boehner will push it through and both will retire comfortably with help from "friends" in far off places. 8)

Andres
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 2696
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:09 am
Location: in transit

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by Andres » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:57 pm

. . . and places nearby.
Chile: My expectations are low. Very low.
I accept chaos. I'm not sure whether it accepts me.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17363
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:24 am

Full text released. Dig in, if you have the time to sift through 6,000 pages.

http://www.tpp.mfat.govt.nz/text

I am sure lot's of red hearings and smoke and mirrors to hide the really nasty stuff in that many pages. I once tried to read the complete text of NAFTA while in college. Not sure why, but seemed like a good idea at the time.

What I found was that like 90% of the pages were just repeating earlier versions of NAFTA text, then adding like two new sentences or at most a paragraph of new text to some subsection. The next time they write a trade agreement, they should start with protecting trees by limiting the amount of paper wasted on bullshit formalities. I am sure many thousands of hectares of trees were sacrificed on the printer over the years, just on trying to print the full text of NAFTA.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17363
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:37 am

ohh, man. Too late. I started clicking through it, and just realized I am going to have to read that whole dam thing due the business we are in. I thought i might just get away with a quick once over of the cliff-notes version. There really is no such thing as reading trade agreements for fun.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17363
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:30 am

o.k., that is a couple hours of my life already I will never get back. Perhaps I can file a compensation claim under the dispute resolution section.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

john
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by john » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:43 pm

admin wrote:o.k., that is a couple hours of my life already I will never get back. Perhaps I can file a compensation claim under the dispute resolution section.
Have spent the last two hours perusing the final TPP text. Perhaps we can file a All Chile Forum class-action compensation claim. :)

Interestingly, New Zealand is the depositary of the TPP agreement.

Text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership
http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-In ... p-Text.php

A couple of comments, so far, on the text:

[Section A: Dispute Settlement, Article 28.21: Private Rights] - have no idea what it really means.

[ANNEX I: Schedule of Chile] It effectively rules out most (if not all) foreign nationals from being able to practise law in Chile based on my interpretation of its following text: Only Chilean and foreign nationals with residence in Chile, who have completed the totality of their legal studies in Chile, shall be authorized to practice as lawyers. Sounds like good news for Spencer Global Chile. :wink:
One must care about a world one will not see.
--- Bertrand Russell

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17363
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:07 pm

john wrote: [ANNEX I: Schedule of Chile] It effectively rules out most (if not all) foreign nationals from being able to practise law in Chile based on my interpretation of its following text: Only Chilean and foreign nationals with residence in Chile, who have completed the totality of their legal studies in Chile, shall be authorized to practice as lawyers. Sounds like good news for Spencer Global Chile. :wink:
actually, that is no different that most of the treaties Chile enters, or most other countries for that matter.

For example, we are allowed to work in the United States (just not practice U.S. law), and have U.S. licensed attorneys fly in to Chile for meetings, court cases and lot's of other things; but, they are not allowed to practice in terms of providing legal advice regarding Chilean law, make appearances in court, and so on, without a Chilean attorney, or, for us having a U.S attorney acting as the attorney of record in the States. We simply act as advisors / consultants regarding aspects of Chilean law, to the attorney in the U.S.

Normally not a problem, as one countries attorney is simply incapable of providing services in any coherent way related to the other countries laws. Most of our work involving the United States, is a U.S. law firm or attorney contacts us to handle the Chilean end of the work; or, the other way around; everyone sticks to what what they are specialist in.

Not all that different than say an tax attorney hiring a trial or criminal defense attorney in the U.S., to handle what they specialize in.

You need to look under the trade in services section for the general provisions, then the exclusions in the Chilean specific notes:
Legal Services
9. The Parties recognise that transnational legal services that cover the laws of multiple
jurisdictions play an essential role in facilitating trade and investment and in promoting
economic growth and business confidence.
10. If a Party regulates or seeks to regulate foreign lawyers and transnational legal
practice, the Party shall encourage its relevant bodies to consider, subject to its laws and
regulations, whether or in what manner:
(a) foreign lawyers may practise foreign law on the basis of their right to practise
that law in their home jurisdiction;
(b) foreign lawyers may prepare for and appear in commercial arbitration,
conciliation and mediation proceedings;
(c) local ethical, conduct and disciplinary standards are applied to foreign lawyers
in a manner that is no more burdensome for foreign lawyers than the
requirements imposed on domestic (host country) lawyers;
(d) alternatives for minimum residency requirements are provided for foreign
lawyers, such as requirements that foreign lawyers disclose to clients their
status as a foreign lawyer, or maintain professional indemnity insurance or
alternatively disclose to clients that they lack that insurance;
(e) the following modes of providing transnational legal services are
accommodated:
(i) on a temporary fly-in, fly-out basis;
(ii) through the use of web-based or telecommunications technology;
(iii) by establishing a commercial presence; and
Subject to Legal Review in English, Spanish and French
for Accuracy, Clarity and Consistency
Subject to Authentication of English, Spanish and French Versions
10-13
(iv) through a combination of fly-in, fly-out and one or both of the other
modes listed in subparagraphs (ii) and (iii);
(f) foreign lawyers and domestic (host country) lawyers may work together in the
delivery of fully integrated transnational legal services; and
(g) a foreign law firm may use the firm name of its choice.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 17363
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: TPP and the Pacific Alliance

Post by admin » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:23 pm

Oh, the other thing that my wife does a lot is act as an expert witness in U.S. courts. She can not practice law, but she provides expert witness testimony on Chilean law, when the U.S. courts are trying understand or interpret certain provisions of Chilean law. Lot's of child custody, procedures, and so on, that U.S. courts need to deal with.

The funny one was my wife acted as an expert witness in a U.S. trial a few years ago regarding the legality of voluntary depositions in Chile, done for example by teleconference or other means for U.S. courts. Most attorneys in Chile don't even know what that is, and assume it is illegal to do, even on a voluntarily basis. My wife made the case, that among many other things, it was both legal and a matter of free speech. Chilean law has no standing to say who you can and can not speak to in regards to a foreign court or anyone else for that matter. That is between the foreign court and the individual. Obviously the foreign court has no real practical means to force someone to testify or cooperate, but there is nothing in Chilean law to stop some one from voluntarily providing testimony. So, essentially she was providing a deposition, about the legality of providing a deposition, from Chile for a U.S. court.

Now I guess that is starting to make its rounds to the legal journals and such, as we are getting calls from other U.S. attorneys with cases involving Chile where the opposition is claiming it is illegal to do at all. Kind of sort of set a precedent in U.S. courts, without her being a U.S. attorney.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

Post Reply