July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2.0

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July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2.0

Post by admin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:12 pm

So, rather than try to post little bits to a bunch of threads, thought this would be worthy of a new one (moderation? You can't handle moderation).

Following everything that has gone on today with U.S. government (and a lot went on today), that I am not sure many members of the forum really appreciate (or they are keeping their heads down if they do); the United States government was caught in every way, with nowhere to hide ('with their pants down', as someone else put it today on another forum).

Like Snowden or not, love or hate him, he was responsible for today (not to be confused for the reason it happened). Obviously, my personal perspective is, my hats off to him for having the balls to say the 'emperor wears no clothes'.

First, you need to at least entertain my thesis that today was a historical day in American history. That is, 100 years from now, what happened today will be recorded somewhere with some sort of bold text, or at least a footnote giving it a nod as the day something foot-notable happened in the history books.

so, let's start with the laundry list of supporting evidence.

from allchile.net, various major threads related to the issues at hand (I likely missed a lot of them, but to get those just joining us going):
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum/topic10575.html
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum/topic10577.html
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum/topic3875-420.html
and last, but not least, possibly our oldest and most active thread on the forum:
http://www.allchile.net/chileforum/topic1316.html

Let's try to centralize them here in this thread a bit from now on.

Now, from the action today:
The article that started it all, and if you have not read it; well, not sure what you have been doing today
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... nline-data

Now the significance, and you will need to spend some time reading all the news sources to really follow, because there are just too many, and the best ones are often small and obscure sources. Read the comments more than the articles, because that is where the real action is at.

those slides from snowden, were released a few hours before the head of the NSA addressed defcon.
https://threatpost.com/nsa-director-def ... ote/101541

They also happened to be released just as a senate judiciary hearing was starting with the heads of the FBI, attorney general, and so on present.

They were also released just before the Guardian reporter was scheduled to testify to an "informal" congressional comity (read 'not for the record, but let's pretend it is'). The white house however swooped in at the last moment and called all the democrats to the white house to discuss the NSA and privacy issues (read, get them in line).

They were released just as manning got set for his sentence for the wikileak leaks.

Any time a pubic official appeared today, if you watch the videos or look at their statements, the entire U.S. government was caught off-guard. In many instances, it was obvious they either did not know about the release by snowden or simply did not have time to change their speech and statements made to the public and to congress (that includes members of the Senate). In multiple instances they were caught in more than a few lies, and some of them jail-time worthy lies (if anyone would bother to prosecute them).

It negated a half-hearted attempt by the administration to change the toon and declassify some documents showing 'you see we are not so bad'.

Snowden dropped a nuclear weapon in the middle of a perfect storm of vulnerabilities by the U.S. administration, congress, and the judicial branches (yea, FISA court reps where in those hearings today defending the undefendiable).

The U.S. based media even got caught with their pants down. It was many hours before anyone picked up or started reporting on it, even in the middle of reporting on other events.

All this happened today. Most Americans will die in their sleep, likely many years from now, and never appreciated that it happened. Some will however.

If you follow the pulse of the IT community with any depth, you will see today the tide turned. They have all been "upset" about this for a while, but I believe today they finally seen an opportunity to unify, because the public support (if not there yet) is slowly materializing. Perhaps a better way to put it, I see a sudden sense of justification to take action among them.

Where we go from here however is where the interesting stuff will happen (make this day historic); or, perhaps, nothing will pass. I am putting my money down on something has fundamentally changed in both tied and tone.

I do not want to use the worn term 'cyber war', but instead would describe it more as a battle for the internet and the free flow of information. From the free flow of information, flows all other forms of freedom (freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and so on). Simply correlate the invention of the printing press with the rise of popular revolutions and democracy in history.

Well, here we are again. Now what?
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Re: July 31st, 2013 a historic day in America, police state

Post by admin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:35 pm

I even took a stab at trying to round-up the followers of all the slightly related threads. seems a shame to get good conversation split over sooo many really similar threads, but still do not want to kill them administratively by locking them or something.
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Re: July 31st, 2013 a historic day in America, police state

Post by admin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:44 pm

You know I was watching, just before the new release, a debate on cnn between a republican flag waving twit of congressmen and a rather minor member of the ACLU regardening the manning verdict.

The head of the ACLU made an obvious but ignored point. Where are the prosecutions of the people that committed war crimes, and crimes against humanity, crimes in the United States, and crimes in foreign countries, that was revealed by the documents that manning leaked?

Not one. Not one prosecution for all the crimes contained in those documents, other than the private that leaked the documents.
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Re: July 31st, 2013 a historic day in America, police state

Post by admin » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:57 pm

so, for all those that have not looked in detail at the slides, or don't really understand what they are seeing, is in order.

highlights and examination about what we learned today about how much protection the administration is applying to the WORLD'S communication (they CLIFF notes):

1.) the user interface that low level contractors to the goverment has access to, for searching everyone's communication, is a work of art in terms of simplicity and use. Hell, our sign-up form, is nowhere near as user friendly.

Lie number one, that the has been pushed in the last weeks is that snowden is lying to world about his access, because he never had it.

2) there is a FISA court review process for all American communication. Well, it really looks like the biggest data search restraint is a pulldown menu of options that a user would select to justify their intrusion in to EVERYTHING you do on the internet. For everything else, there is a very generic "justificaition" field.

I am sure all the searches conducted using that last 'other' field had very honest things entered like "my girlfriend is cheating on me" or "some company paid me to find blackmail material on the head of the company they are taking over".
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Re: July 31st, 2013 a historic day in America, police state

Post by frozen-north » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:01 am

admin wrote:
Not one. Not one prosecution for all the crimes contained in those documents, other than the private that leaked the documents.
Isn't that kind of the usual way these things work out?

Many others were outraged not at Calley's guilty verdict, but that he was the only one within the chain of command who was convicted.

Ultimately, Calley served only three and a half years of house arrest in his quarters at Fort Benning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley

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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:11 am

intermission.

This is brought to you buy the same people (many, yes, are asking to trust them right now, as they are still in the U.S. gov) as these wonderful tails:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by FrankPintor » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:14 am

admin wrote:Like Snowden or not, love or hate him, he was responsible for today (not to be confused for the reason it happened). Obviously, my personal perspective is, my hats off to him for having the balls to say the 'emperor wears no clothes'.
He, and the Guardian, certainly peed on the US government's collective leg today. My hat is off as well :D

But, hey.... “Allegations of widespread, unchecked analyst access to NSA collection data are simply not true,” reads a press release issued by the agency today. So it's all OK, right? :roll:

You know what, in my business the US make a big song and dance about Huawei, how Huawei is close to the Chinese government, gives information to the Chinese government, engages in spying and industrial espionage for China.... where do these po-faced lying American b$%$%rds get off? The hypocrisy is breath-taking. The Chinese are bloody amateurs. The US government and every damn American IT-related company have been sucking up our personal and private data for at least a decade already, and using it, not to fight terrorists, that's a transp[arent excuse, but for the US commercial and political advantage. WTF!?
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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:17 am

someone that commented on the source of the above over at cnn international said:
And which intelligence agency likely created the "actionable" intellegence?
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/31/tech/ ... isqus-area
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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:22 am

hey, I have actually done network packet captures from inside a Chinese University. Guess what you see on the Chinese "internet" under the hood?

A crippling pile of crap of one virus infected computer trying to talk to another virus infected computer. That was almost 10 years ago. Sure it has not gotten any better.
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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:33 am

for real fun, go to google news and enter "defcon", that would be the las vegas hacker convention where the head of the NSA really got caught with his pants down.
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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:37 am

http://www.businessinsider.com/keith-al ... hat-2013-7

There was all but two open declarations of war declared between the NSA and the hacker / computer security community. This is where the real danger will be for the average joe trying to live in a digital age. This will be where the sleeping facebook user, will get the collateral damage of the war directly, well, in their face.

What will really wake them up, is when the ATM quits working, their accounts go crazy, their electricity is turned off. There will be real world damage in this war. This is not a "cyber" war. This will be real. People have died, and will die in it.
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Re: July 31st, 2013, historic day in America, police state 2

Post by admin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:56 am

i did not find this on CNN, NBC, CSPAN, or any other western media, but did find it syndicated on a muslim web site that linked to the orginal article.


Civil Liberties
AlterNet / By Ron Wyden
Sen. Ron Wyden On NSA Spying: It's As Bad As Snowden Says


http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties ... paging=off
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