Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

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fraggle092
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by fraggle092 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:28 pm

Britkid wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:04 pm
I think going after the money is the right thing to do from an unselfish standpoint for the whole of society and the right thing to do.
Its the selfish thing to do as well, depending on your point of view :)

This country has a history of incomers who thought they could change attitudes by personal example. They are more often pitied than admired by the locals.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of the responders on this topic have ever actually been in this situation? I have, a long time ago, but certainly never for millions of Pesos.
Après moi, le déluge

41southchile
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by 41southchile » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:24 pm

fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:28 pm

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of the responders on this topic have ever actually been in this situation? I have, a long time ago, but certainly never for millions of Pesos.
Three times, once for 2 million and another for 1.7 million, and one for 500k managed to eventually recoup about 1 milliom from the 2 million and nothing from the 1.7 million or the 500k
The two million was a loan for 3 days and he was going to pay me back, to a suppossed friend, that was about four years ago, I later found out he had fleeced nearly everyone in the area, not paying bills and leases on farms he was renting etc, I actually got off lightly some people he owed upwards of 5 millions for work done etc, he was a decent friendly guy but just a con artist, I think he is up around Los Angeles way now probably doing the same thing.
The other was about 6 years ago and not a loan just a scam where supposedly a "friend" of ours was selling bolos (round preserved grass wrapped in plastic to feed cows in the winter) The first lot came fine no problems but the secomd time the rest never did, later found out she was a gambling addict and had scammed others too. The 500k was a loan for a week for a suppossed friend as well in trouble, as gloria says , get a dog. Lol. So lessons are never pay up front for stuff no matter how well they present themselves and never lend money that you are not prepared to lose, because you normally will. In saying that I have lent one other time to a friend in need and he paid it back, (after about 1 year)
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

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eeuunikkeiexpat
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by eeuunikkeiexpat » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:15 pm

fraggle has probably been knocked offline due to the 6.7.

My experience and the reason I extend it to long termers who have very much adopted Chilean ways, this goes back to the 2002-2003 era, a gringo Santiago hostel owner where I joined forces to start something in the Lake District, he knowing the lay of the land and the clientele, me the plata to help make both of our dreams a reality, I think around 1,6 palos mas o menos.

A male relative of my first landlord (my friend) who asked for a small loan (can't remember but it wasn't that much), still in my USA framework I had to demand it back even losing my temper, but I got it back.

A female relative of my first landlord who strangely visited me (not really it was for money) after not seeing her and her adult daughter for some time. I directly and firmly refused and she left commenting on the mal onda.

My watching the comings and goings of developed world expats very few staying more than 5 years from 2002 to the present. One thing I learned was to be on guard for the family of a pareja, novia, esposa. I am blessed that my wife's family is not that type and of course I displayed from the very beginning that I would not be one to go to for a loan.
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Gloria
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by Gloria » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:21 pm

The enema is working. :lol: It created a quake.
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thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:31 am

fraggle092 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:28 pm
Britkid wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:04 pm
I think going after the money is the right thing to do from an unselfish standpoint for the whole of society and the right thing to do.
Its the selfish thing to do as well, depending on your point of view :)

This country has a history of incomers who thought they could change attitudes by personal example. They are more often pitied than admired by the locals.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of the responders on this topic have ever actually been in this situation? I have, a long time ago, but certainly never for millions of Pesos.
I loaned my flashlight earlier, to a guy who wanted to get something out of his house after our 6.7 earlier today. And I thought I'd never see it again, considering my earlier experiences with "loaning" stuff here, and trying to help someone out. But he did return it, and some of my faith in humanity was restored.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:06 am

A "friend" had been trying to set me up for a few years. And when he finally started asking me for money, I gave him the benefit of a doubt and "loaned" him 25,000 pesos, never expecting to see it again. Which I thought was acceptable, considering he helped me out with a couple things earlier. Then he showed up the next day and said he needed more. So I told him I wasn't a bank, and started ranting about how "loaning" him money wouldn't really be helping him. So after he tried to rationalize how I could afford to "loan" him the money, since it wasn't a problem for me. And saying stuff like "you're my friend, right?". He finally left. And I haven't heard from him since. Something never seemed quite right about that whole situation.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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the19trier
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by the19trier » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:49 am

Not saying I would lend money again -lessons learned. Still, I have not given up on my money before trying the lawyer route, etc.
Gloria wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:56 pm
the19trier wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:56 pm
Does anyone of you know a suitable lawyer in this case for getting the money back?
you just....jpg
Oh no.jpg

thisisreallycomplicated
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by thisisreallycomplicated » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:09 am

thisisreallycomplicated wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:06 am
A "friend" had been trying to set me up for a few years.
So I just went back and read the rest of this thread, and now I'm sure he was trying to set me up for the "loan", right from the beginning. The first and only time he invited me over to his house, he told me how he loaned one of his relatives a lot (35 million?) to buy some land, and he never got it back. I was always suspicious about that, like he was trying to soften me up for something. And he asked me to help him with his English for a resume and interview, but he never followed through on anything. So I pretty much gave up on him at that point. Then he started showing up asking for money, and I knew it was all just a scam.

One thing I've noticed here, is that whenever I offer to loan or help with something, the relatively honest people here look at me like I'm nuts. Like when I loaned my flashlight to a guy earlier tonight, his neighbor who I've known for a long time, started talking as if he thought I'd never see it again. And when I paid for some dental work right after it was done, it was like the first time that ever happened to them.
“Now it’s conspiracy – they’ve made that something that should not even be entertained for a minute, that powerful people might get together and have a plan. Doesn’t happen, you’re a kook, you’re a conspiracy buff!” – George Carlin

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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by admin » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:57 am

Britkid wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm
admin wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:45 am
couple of years ago a good friend got in a bit of financial pinch. was not going to be able to pay the rent, school for the kids, etc. she did not aproach us for help, but we found out about it through mutual friends they were in trouble.

so my wife and i decided we should help them out. I felt it kind of patronizing and not terribly helpful to hand them say 20,000 pesos, when they really needed like 500,000 just to keep a roof over their head. like handing someone a tea cup to bail out the titanic.

so we debated loaning them money. which, i am seriously against loaning money to anyone, let alone friends. bad things happen, probably certain to end a friendship at best.

Then i had the deeply selfish philosophical thought. I realized we could just give them the money, and i could just chalk it up to the price of having friends.

if my friends got kicked out their house, they would have to move out of town (nothing to rent here). then we will have to find new friends. which after considering dinners, wine, other requirments to get to know someone. expect a few false starts with people we don't like, it is going to cost way more than 500,000 pesos.
So, what did you actually do?
Sorry thought that was obvious, and now realize I kind of left that story hanging.

I a gave them the money. they dug themselves out if their financial whole, and we are still good friends. so money well spent.

nothing worse than trying to help someone out, and have them piss it away.

we have never talked about it again. they have never asked us for money. think i have like lent them my jumper cables and a ladder since then, that they have always promtly returned. that is why i gave them the money in the first place. they were all around good people, and as far as i know anyway, not the kind of people that go around playing the loan game so many chileans like to play.

employees on the other hand know not to even ask us for loans, ever.

how do i put it. we make a point to give off a clear vibe, 'We may or may not loan you the money, but we will definitly cut you loose from your job just for asking'.

I consider it a cultural red flag, and most chileans also know friends or employees, that start doing that are probably not your friends or are not trust worthy employees.

Gringos seem to have trouble readying those cultural cues.

with our employees, that is mostly i believe an implied extension of a written policy we have with our employees for years, and it is in their employment contract, that they and their family members can not accept money or gifts in any form from one of our clients or third-parties without our express authorization. if they do, it is immediate termination.

It creates conflicts of interest, ambiguity in our relationships, and a pile of other problems on many levels.

wich means i am constantly stopping (especially american) gringos clients from trying to do silly things like "tip" my employees. It is as much for my employees' protection as our clients', and our own protection. we simply never want to deal with any "missunderstandings". occasionally a client will offer an enployee a token gift of apreciation, say a box of chocalates, a scarf, etc; but, all of our employees know to check with us first before accepting it. they are not going to risk their job over a little gift.

when there is a particular big project is completed, that our employees worked particularly hard on, and everything is settled, we will from time time suprise them with a bonus. however it is from us, no one else.
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by admin » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:44 am

family members are whole diffrent story. I sort of view it as price of having married in to a chilean family, but they know not to push their luck. often my wife is harder on them than i am.

we will help out with a real emergency, but don't come to us asking for money for silly stuff.

like my sister in law and family, we will occasionaly pick up the tution bill for the kids at school. they have a buisness has good parts of the year and slow parts of the year. we caught wind through the grape-vine that they were post dating checks to pay tution at the school. we retrieved the checks, paid the tution, and gave them a full chewing-out. we live in a small community, and we did not want the kids or the family being labeled "those people", because at some point it starts to effect everyone, especialy the kids. it starts effecting for example who invites them to certain parties or activities, which snowballs in to who they know and who are their friends, that later can effect things like buisness opertunities, political connections, possibly even who they marry, etc. which in chile, pretty much negates the point of sending kids to a good private school. Chile is still very old school in class relationships. the small town we live in is very, very old school. they might get away with that in say santiago, but not here.

we have chewed them out sufficiently that finaly they have gotten their finances straitened out; but I'am not going to let the kids get kicked out of school, because mom and dad's momentary stupidity.
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41southchile
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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by 41southchile » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:33 am

admin wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:57 am
Britkid wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm
admin wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:45 am
couple of years ago a good friend got in a bit of financial pinch. was not going to be able to pay the rent, school for the kids, etc. she did not aproach us for help, but we found out about it through mutual friends they were in trouble.

so my wife and i decided we should help them out. I felt it kind of patronizing and not terribly helpful to hand them say 20,000 pesos, when they really needed like 500,000 just to keep a roof over their head. like handing someone a tea cup to bail out the titanic.

so we debated loaning them money. which, i am seriously against loaning money to anyone, let alone friends. bad things happen, probably certain to end a friendship at best.

Then i had the deeply selfish philosophical thought. I realized we could just give them the money, and i could just chalk it up to the price of having friends.

if my friends got kicked out their house, they would have to move out of town (nothing to rent here). then we will have to find new friends. which after considering dinners, wine, other requirments to get to know someone. expect a few false starts with people we don't like, it is going to cost way more than 500,000 pesos.
So, what did you actually do?
Sorry thought that was obvious, and now realize I kind of left that story hanging.

I a gave them the money. they dug themselves out if their financial whole, and we are still good friends. so money well spent.

nothing worse than trying to help someone out, and have them piss it away.

we have never talked about it again. they have never asked us for money. think i have like lent them my jumper cables and a ladder since then, that they have always promtly returned. that is why i gave them the money in the first place. they were all around good people, and as far as i know anyway, not the kind of people that go around playing the loan game so many chileans like to play.

employees on the other hand know not to even ask us for loans, ever.

how do i put it. we make a point to give off a clear vibe, 'We may or may not loan you the money, but we will definitly cut you loose from your job just for asking'.

I consider it a cultural red flag, and most chileans also know friends or employees, that start doing that are probably not your friends or are not trust worthy employees.

Gringos seem to have trouble readying those cultural cues.

with our employees, that is mostly i believe an implied extension of a written policy we have with our employees for years, and it is in their employment contract, that they and their family members can not accept money or gifts in any form from one of our clients or third-parties without our express authorization. if they do, it is immediate termination.

It creates conflicts of interest, ambiguity in our relationships, and a pile of other problems on many levels.

wich means i am constantly stopping (especially american) gringos clients from trying to do silly things like "tip" my employees. It is as much for my employees' protection as our clients', and our own protection. we simply never want to deal with any "missunderstandings". occasionally a client will offer an enployee a token gift of apreciation, say a box of chocalates, a scarf, etc; but, all of our employees know to check with us first before accepting it. they are not going to risk their job over a little gift.

when there is a particular big project is completed, that our employees worked particularly hard on, and everything is settled, we will from time time suprise them with a bonus. however it is from us, no one else.
Yeah that's totally understandable in a professional business like a law firm where there could be many conflicts of interests and large transactions.
However , for a manual labourer whose car craps out then he gets screwed around by the dodgy mechanic and has no way to get to work and has to support the household with his wife, as she has health issues she only works occasionally , and also has the wife's son in law in the house (who finds the occasional day jobs but has just recently lost his wife to cancer ) and the wifes 5 year old grandson , no car makes it hard, so I really have no issue there with that "loan".
Maybe its not the right thing to do ? It does t really worry me, in fact most rural employers assume thst they are getting ripped off somewhere along the line by their staff and build into their costs.
Firewood, milk, the occassional tool etc etc always seem to go "missing " on most farmers farms I talk to.

If they are in need and ask, probably better to loan that than to fire them. Shit happens in life, doesn't make them an untrustworthy empliyee.

Its same scenario of the school, it's a very small village and these guys are locals all their lives , they want to hold onto their job and are unlikely to bitch and moan to the others in the village about what an arse hole the gringo is, on the contrary they are loyal emplyess. I find all the local gossip who is who and what is going on , the grapevine is very short in rural areas.

Its stratagic,(selfish) as oppossd to some sense of generosity or sorrow I feel . so far it has worked well, never had a burglary or animal theft, yet I seem to have heard of lots around the local area over the years , most turn out to be disgruntled employess passing on datos to acquaintances.

Now if it starts to become more frequent well will have to evaluate it, but once a year? , meh , it's cheap insurance
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

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Re: Lent a Chilean several millions pesos, and he does not pay back

Post by admin » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:48 am

there is a fine line, judgment call regarding indivdual employees.

probably bigger issue with gringos just ariving is them trying to be too friendly, buddy, buddy with an employee or their family. without a much better feal for the culture, it almost always causes problems and misunderstandings. keep the relationship friendly, but professional.
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For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

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