Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Chile Investment, how to invest in Chile, what to watch out for when investing, economic issues, currency exchange in Chile, and more.
41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:35 pm

Ok one last thing, I think a lot of people dont realise how far we have come, they forget (or are ignorant) about history, or get stuck on the same news cycles, memes, and propoganda of the moment, when they moan about weath inequality, when they say how much poverty there is, how bad everything is etc. Well I would say to them, Look at what the world (Chile, USA, wherever, pick a country) was like 100 years ago and just compare it today, yes there is still poverty today in certain places, but how many more rich people are there?, how many kids actually make it past their 5th bithday these days?, how many women dont die in pregnancy,? The list could go on and on, I think you all get the idea.
Things just need to be put in persprctive sometimes, we are still on the journey, shit isnt going to get solved in an election cycle, but we are moving forward all the time. We are advancing in so many areas, ever faster from medicine to tech to education to human rights etc, is the world perfect ? Hell no, but its a shit load better than it was 50 years and not even comparable to 200 years ago really.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
Space Cat
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: Valdivia

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by Space Cat » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 am

Totally agree, check this article:
https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of ... n-5-charts

Everything is unbelievably good for the humankind compared to the rest of our history but the media get higher click rates from fear, uncertainty and doubt.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:07 am

Space Cat wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:56 am
Totally agree, check this article:
https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of ... n-5-charts

Everything is unbelievably good for the humankind compared to the rest of our history but the media get higher click rates from fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Thanks for the link, some pretty interesting graphs there, so basically we have never had it so good and are living in the best time in the worlds history, for the average citizen in the world.
I guess its easier to be negative and maybe human nature to look for the worst things (and I suppose be impatient, and influenced by what others say) that we forget that someone ranting on in their 20s , 30s , 40s, generally has no experience to talk about how the world is improving every generation and that they actually need to do some more study and reading if they want to know what a crap life actually looked like for the average citizen. The ignorant I can understand how they may not get it, but its when they are educated and know history, then you know they have an ulterior motive for their bullshit spin and you should definately not trust them (think Camila Vallejo et.al)
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16690
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:44 am

Well, I think we also lack a clear definition of what constitutes a declining country (e.g. the U.S.S.A).

The opportunities in much of the developed world, are not what they use to be. At least not what I remember, and definitely not the sort of opportunities my mother and father had after WWII.

My father grew-up in the great depression, born to a single mother in 1921, with 13 kids. My father told this story, of when he was like 7 or 8, of collecting canned goods for the poor in his neighbourhood. Later he came home, to find one of the cans he collected sitting on the kitchen table, that prompted him to ask my grandmother, "are we poor"?

Big thumbs up to my grandmother for somehow managing to maintain the illusion they were not poor for so long. He said he never new what a full meal was, until he joined the Marines. At the head of the dinner table, was a photo of Roosevelt; not my grandfather.

However, my father use to talk about how after he left the Marines (the first time), he would hitch-hike around the United States, arrive in to a city at dawn, and by 9 A.M. have a really good paying job.

My mother, in the early 50's (I think), worked as waitress for a while (it was back when women went to school to find a husband, so she had dropped out of the University), with two babies at home, and managed to support everyone including my father finishing his under graduate university degree at the University of Utah, with tuition paid by the GI bill (free tuition for vets, but not living expenses). Try pulling off that trick anywhere in the United State today, with a family of four. It simply does not happen.

By comparison, at one point I considered going to the University of Utah too. When I told my father what it cost (think it was like $40,000 or $50,000 a year, in 1990's prices), he said, "it was not that good a school" (U. of Utah has always been one of the top public universities in the U.S.).
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:32 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:44 am
Well, I think we also lack a clear definition of what constitutes a declining country (e.g. the U.S.S.A).

The opportunities in much of the developed world, are not what they use to be. At least not what I remember, and definitely not the sort of opportunities my mother and father had after WWII.
I agree that some opportunities are not what they use to be in the developed world, but there are different opportunities available now, back in the immediate generation post world war 2 there were only opportunities for white straight males pretty much, yes there were exceptions but overall it was a monoculture white picket fence society. It was great if you were the right color or sex it was a society where the women had to shut up and cook, gays wernt mentioned, minorities were still second class citizens, kids wer not listened to, it wasn't until the 60s and 70s that things started changing with the all the upheavals. And as I mentioned before all statistics from car crash deaths to polio to literacy and poverty where a hell of a lot worse than they are today.
Yes today things are a lot harder especially if you want to buy a house for example, but today half the world has just about any knowledge they could ever imagine at their fingertips and they can start a business and co ordinate with anyone anywhere in the world to find others like them or specialists they may need. Back in the day there certainly were not opportunities like that, yes a large percentage may not make the most of those opportunities today, but plenty do.
The advancements being made by brilliant minds around the world is growing exponentially , and are mind blowing and they are continuing, despite whover the current man of system maybe in power.
With so many connected and the world globalised now, through the movement of people and goods (there's no turning the clock back on that, no matter what people may say), someone in Chiloe today can make vodka and sell it to high end restaurants in New York, that wasn't possible a generation ago.
Yes times are uncertain, and their will be bumps along the road , yes certain things may have been better in the old days for some people, but the dickwads in power are blips on the radar and will become pages in history along with all the other clowns that have come before them and will probably follow. Society will adapt, things will change, but there's no going back and all we can do is learn from what has gone wrong and what needs fixing.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16690
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:33 pm

yea, yea, I get that argument (not that new). Things are better. We all have iphones, facebook, and are not going to die of the plague or need to join a leper colony.

Which is exactly what is causing the problems we do have: resource shortages.

We are victims of our own success.

The current crisis, no matter how you slice and dice it politically, is a resource crisis. You can believe in global warming or not. You can call the water crisis, "fake news", or the energy crisis, or whatever crisis; but no one seems to be really arguing over there is a shortage of resources (regardless of what caused it).

How to allocate them is the name of the game (or, perhaps, a more urgent version of a very old game).

Who is going to be caught when the music stops without a chair?

Those Syrians, Africans, etc are not on the move because a war. They are on the move because of droughts. The Haitens and Venezuelans, on the move due to political corruption. That trickle out of Central America, that keeps Trump up tweeting late at night, also probably corruption / civil war / criminal driven. So on and so forth. They all got resource allocation issues in common.

Those titanic global and regional population shifts going on, are larger than any in history. At no time in history, and I would include WWII, has so many people left their home and moved somewhere else. Even if WWII was larger by percentage of the global population on the move, it was not larger in sheer number of people, simply because we got a lot more people now (and moving is a lot easier).

Which, I had the thought the other day, if there is something that makes Chile insecure, it is the stability of the neighbours. It is very much in Chile's interest, as a rising (soft) regional power, to make sure the neighbours get their shit together (that is a geopolitical technical term only used on allchile.net).

Chile has reached out a bit, with trade agreements say with Peru and Colombia. It has been a bit more vocal on the world stage. Kind of playing hot potato between the other countries over Venezuela (no one wants to pay for fixing that mess when it is over).

Still, if Chile does not want to get sucked in to a regional conflict, or need to defend the boarder, or any of that stupidity; it really needs to step up and be more assertive with the b.s. going on with the neighbours.

Even if that is just, good for Chile economically. Imagine how much Chile's economy would grow, if every country in South America got politically and economically stable and grew their economies to even a fraction of their potential. Most of all, stop flirting with the communist morons and the socialist apologist crowd. Frigen hell, 100+ years of that crap has obviously yielded little to nothing good for Latin America.

If Chile wants to get out from under the limits of a middle income trap, helping the neighbours develop would be a good place to start.

Because if they fail to develop, well, we got a preview of what is to come with the recent wave of migration to Chile the last few years. If something is going to cripple Chile's development, to turn back the clock on the progress it has made, it will be trying to serve all the guest that are coming to dinner.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:12 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:33 pm
yea, yea, I get that argument (not that new). Things are better. We all have iphones, facebook, and are not going to die of the plague or need to join a leper colony.

Which is exactly what is causing the problems we do have: resource shortages.

We are victims of our own success.

The current crisis, no matter how you slice and dice it politically, is a resource crisis. You can believe in global warming or not. You can call the water crisis, "fake news", or the energy crisis, or whatever crisis; but no one seems to be really arguing over there is a shortage of resources (regardless of what caused it).

How to allocate them is the name of the game (or, perhaps, a more urgent version of a very old game).

Who is going to be caught when the music stops without a chair?

Those Syrians, Africans, etc are not on the move because a war. They are on the move because of droughts. The Haitens and Venezuelans, on the move due to political corruption. That trickle out of Central America, that keeps Trump up tweeting late at night, also probably corruption / civil war / criminal driven. So on and so forth. They all got resource allocation issues in common.

Those titanic global and regional population shifts going on, are larger than any in history. At no time in history, and I would include WWII, has so many people left their home and moved somewhere else. Even if WWII was larger by percentage of the global population on the move, it was not larger in sheer number of people, simply because we got a lot more people now (and moving is a lot easier).

Which, I had the thought the other day, if there is something that makes Chile insecure, it is the stability of the neighbours. It is very much in Chile's interest, as a rising (soft) regional power, to make sure the neighbours get their shit together (that is a geopolitical technical term only used on allchile.net).

Chile has reached out a bit, with trade agreements say with Peru and Colombia. It has been a bit more vocal on the world stage. Kind of playing hot potato between the other countries over Venezuela (no one wants to pay for fixing that mess when it is over).

Still, if Chile does not want to get sucked in to a regional conflict, or need to defend the boarder, or any of that stupidity; it really needs to step up and be more assertive with the b.s. going on with the neighbours.

Even if that is just, good for Chile economically. Imagine how much Chile's economy would grow, if every country in South America got politically and economically stable and grew their economies to even a fraction of their potential. Most of all, stop flirting with the communist morons and the socialist apologist crowd. Frigen hell, 100+ years of that crap has obviously yielded little to nothing good for Latin America.

If Chile wants to get out from under the limits of a middle income trap, helping the neighbours develop would be a good place to start.

Because if they fail to develop, well, we got a preview of what is to come with the recent wave of migration to Chile the last few years. If something is going to cripple Chile's development, to turn back the clock on the progress it has made, it will be trying to serve all the guest that are coming to dinner.
There are theories that to stabilise the world (mainly by the economist) that contrary to popular thinking, show that complete open borders would actually sort out most of the problems you mention, of course this will never happen for a list of reasons as long as Chile.
Rather than Chile trying to say what is best for other countries let people vote with their feet completely.

Or China or USA or whatever country it is , that by giving complete freedoms for everyone that would actually solve a lot of the problems you mentioned, then lets see how long despots and dictators last with no power base, no one to enrich them etc.

Anyway, That is all hypothetical though because the trouble is, well humans are humans and that shit ain't going to fly with most people.

As for the resources issue, yeah we will probably not be able to sort that shit out, maybe next time around in a few billion years when everything resets after we wipe ourselves out, or maybe we are like the dinosaurs and that's just the way we are supposed to go, to make way for something else. Humans have so much potential yet so much working against us, by way of our very nature. Maybe we will find a way, maybe once humans are mostly mechanical they will be able to colonize other parts of the universe once we have fucked this planet.

So I don't have any answers but it's fun to ponder, if you start getting too negative and gloomy or anything else, you would probably seriously ask for a refund on life and wonder what the friggin point of it all is, but then maybe there is no point? It is just what it is, maybe its just to join the ride for the micro second of time we are here, and see what happens.
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16690
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:41 pm

Well, there is other models for doing diplomacy and trade, than the American, or the Chinese one (i.e., 'we are going to rape your country, in return for a little piece of pie, that only a very small, pre-qualified special interest group will ever get to tast').

Here is an example, the Chile-Brazil free trade agreement:
https://santiagotimes.cl/2018/10/22/chi ... ent-talks/

There was a recent study, on how the number of trade agreements a country has tended to cause the country to be more economically stable and able to weather financial crisis and recover faster. Can't find the link at the moment.

Chile has something like 60+ trade agreements (think 28 are major agreements, but depends how you count them), Argentina has exactly 1 (mercosur, that seems to actually discourage countries entering trade agreements, and Brazil had talked of withdrawing because of it).

The new "thing" in trade agreements too is to insert social and development issues in to them. For example, requirements for diversity, along with environmental, corporate governance standards, and transparency requirements, etc. Guess too much bad press has been generated over kids going blind to make Nike shoes and so on.

So, other countries have been doing it to Chile for a while (e.g. Chile-EU trade agreements), guess Chile is going to do it to other countries.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:56 pm

admin wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:41 pm
Well, there is other models for doing diplomacy and trade, than the American, or the Chinese one (i.e., 'we are going to rape your country, in return for a little piece of pie, that only a very small, pre-qualified special interest group will ever get to tast').

Here is an example, the Chile-Brazil free trade agreement:
https://santiagotimes.cl/2018/10/22/chi ... ent-talks/

There was a recent study, on how the number of trade agreements a country has tended to cause the country to be more economically stable and able to weather financial crisis and recover faster. Can't find the link at the moment.

Chile has something like 60+ trade agreements (think 28 are major agreements, but depends how you count them), Argentina has exactly 1 (mercosur, that seems to actually discourage countries entering trade agreements, and Brazil had talked of withdrawing because of it).

The new "thing" in trade agreements too is to insert social and development issues in to them. For example, requirements for diversity, along with environmental, corporate governance standards, and transparency requirements, etc. Guess too much bad press has been generated over kids going blind to make Nike shoes and so on.

So, other countries have been doing it to Chile for a while (e.g. Chile-EU trade agreements), guess Chile is going to do it to other countries.
Agree, trade is human nature and is what we as humans do.
As Adam Smith said "Every man lives by exchanging"
Or Benjamin Franklin "no nation was ever ruined by trade" or George Osborne "the biggest single thing that has lifted people out of poverty is free trade".
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16690
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:12 am

O.k., so still looking at the bullshit stats, the United States has got to be the most bullshit of the bullshit international stats. The only reason I can come up with for their consistent high ranking, is they provide funding to a lot of these international organization that compile the stats. It has to be some sort of product placement, or at least not biting the hand that feeds you.

As my brother and I were talking about this (he actually has a degree in EM development studies from Berkeley), he pointed out something about Chile that I guess I have generally just started taking for granted after so much time in Chile.

Very rarely in Chile do you see homeless people sleeping in the street.

Which got me thinking about it this morning as this article on homeless students in NY city came up:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... s-children

Yea, we got the campamentos (squatter communities of makeshift houses), but a lot of them are pretty permanent to semi-perment. They might not have formal legal title or two car garages, but they often have things like electricity and city services, various social service outreach programs from both the goverment and NGO's. They are rarely just a bunch of people in tents and cardboard boxes. The government has put a high priority on them in recent years, as they are also the source of the remaining "hard poverty" problem that needs to be cracked; or, what I would guestimate to be that 5-10% of extreme poverty on the far end of the spectrum in Chile.

But, homeless, like they have in the United States, pretty rare. Like last year, there was a guy in our local town that froze to death one night. He was alcoholic. We have a sort of small group of hard alcoholics in town. The guy had a home, and family. They were interviewed in the local paper, and said they had tried to get him to move home and sober up; he just could not kick the habit.

But, like kids or families on the street or sleeping in their car, pretty rare. Kids begging on the street really rare. If you get a pan-handler in Chile, they tend to be male, say 30-50 years old or so, and looking like they got a pretty obvious substance abuse problem. Which really is a problem Chile needs to tackle, to crack that last hard extreme poverty problem.

You might see, say a bunch of people at an intersection in Santiago selling stuff, performing between lights, and so on; but, by contrast, in Lima, there was like lines of people selling stuff. One intersection, would have like 50 people, not 2 or 3.

A couple years ago there was study of these street vendors and others that work in the informal economy in Santiago. They determined the ladies selling bread and sandwiches from a cart near the metro, was typically clearing over a million pesos a month (tax free). I don't know what the IMF considers "poverty", but pretty much anyone making $1,500+ a month, most anywhere in the World, in my book is not all that poor. Not rich, but not really poor. My wife and I even joked at the time about starting a chain of sandwich carts. In a year or two, we would be ready for an IPO on the stock exchange. Point is, it is not Africa, or even much of the rest of Latin America type poverty; it might not even be United States type poverty. Which brings me to the next post.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 16690
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Frutillar, Chile
Contact:

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by admin » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 am

By accident, someone just happened to write an article on the subject of poverty in America this morning:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... 30533-year

(the social security administration numbers) 50% of American workers, make less than $30,500 a year. to compare apples and pesos, that is 19,846,450 at 650 pesos to the dollar, or 1,653,870 pesos a month.

Some other relevant bits:
The deeper we dig into the numbers provided by the Social Security Administration, the more depressing they become. Here are just a few examples from their official website…

-34 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.

-48 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.

-59 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.

-68 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.
That, $20,000 a year is the eye catcher. Again, for easy comparison, that is 13,000,000 peso, or little over 1 million pesos a month.

However, that is before all the goodies in life, you MUST have; and most Chileans DO have, regardless of income level.

Luckily this article also does my back of the napkin estimates for me:
You would think that someone making “the median income” in a country as wealthy as the United States would be doing quite well. But the truth is that $2,500 a month won’t get you very far these days.

First of all, your family is going to need somewhere to live. Especially on the east and west coasts, it is really hard to find something habitable for under $1,000 a month in 2018. If you live in the middle of the country or in a rural area, housing prices are significantly cheaper. But for the vast majority of us, let’s assume a minimum of $1,000 a month for housing costs.

Secondly, you will also need to pay your utility bills and other home-related expenses. These costs include power, water, phone, television, Internet, etc. I will be extremely conservative and estimate that this total will be about $300 a month.

Thirdly, each income earner will need a vehicle in order to get to work. In this example we will assume one income earner and a car payment of just $200 a month.

So now we are already up to $1,500 a month. The money is running out fast.

Next, insurance bills will have to be paid. Health insurance premiums have gotten ridiculously expensive in recent years, and many family plans are now well over $1,000 a month. But for this example let’s assume a health insurance payment of just $450 a month and a car insurance payment of just $50 a month.

Of course your family will have to eat, and I don’t know anyone that can feed a family of four for just $500 a month, but let’s go with that number.

So now we have already spent the entire $2,500, and we don’t have a single penny left over for anything else.

But wait, we didn’t even account for taxes yet. When you deduct taxes, our fictional family of four is well into the red every month and will need plenty of government assistance.
There is your 'developed' world, REAL 'middle class', as it stands today in America.

For comparison, as mentioned in the article, and I read recently, someone also did a back of the napkin calculations about what it means to have a middle class lifestyle in America today, that compares to something like the 70's or 80's. Something I might identify with, or comes to mind, when someone says 'middle class', as I grew-up in the mid-west United States among family, my friends, and neighbours.

http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/20 ... iddle.html

You can read the article yourself to see how he got to these numbers, but the summary should do for our purposes:
Here's the annual summary:
Healthcare: $15,000
Mortgage: $25,000
Savings: $5,000
Retirement: $12,000
Vehicles: $10,000
Property taxes: $10,000
Income and Social Security/Medicare taxes: $15,000
Living expenses: $12,000
Other: $2,000
Minimum Total: $106,000
Vacations, travel, unexpected expenses, etc: $5,000.
Realistic Total: $111,000
I am not even sure about those numbers, when you throw in things like education expenses, pick at the retirement savings, emergencies, etc.
Spencer Global Chile: Legal, relocation, and Investment assistance in Chile.
For more information visit: https://www.spencerglobal.com

From USA and outside Chile dial 1-917-727-5985 (U.S.), in Chile dial 65 2 42 1024 or by cell 747 97974.

41southchile
Rank: Chile Forum Citizen
Posts: 325
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:39 pm
Location: Lakes Region

Re: Chile Wealth, Inequality, and International rankings

Post by 41southchile » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:02 am

admin wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:12 am


Very rarely in Chile do you see homeless people sleeping in the street.

I was just thinking about this the other day too, after the discussions here, and it is the same conclussion I came to, when I was back in NZ in May I was astounded by the ammount of people sleeping on the streets in Auckland, literally dozens and dozens around the casino and downtown area, hell even in Japan I saw a shit load more of homeless sleeping rough in railway stations etc when I was there in the 90s.

The ones that are in the street here, you are right are the addicts, but also a lot of mental health problems too I imagine, thay havent had the right care and end up in the street, but sleeping because they dont have a home well it doesnt appear that way, could it be more family support or what I am not entirely sure ?
And yeah street vendors, I bought one of those scented pine trees for the car from a guy at the lights in Puerto Montt, he was jovial cracking a joke, his clothes were not rough, and he was talking on his bluetooth from what I could pick up, to someone else about another business opportunity .

Although as I said the other day there are a couple of shit holes that do look like Africa that I have seen, one in particular stood out in Arica on the east side next to the bypass that goes around Arica, immigrants living in abandonded houses with no services thatGovt have had Chileans movedout of because the soil is contaminated with something toxic, there were signs up saying do not enter, and next to those placards (written by immigrant squatters) demanding adequate housing .

Overall I have the same observations there just does not seem to be people sleeping in the street on a large scale.

Also in NZ now they talk about a housing crisis , so many can not afford their own house anymore, its a national disgrace etc, but here it seems, (and again theses are only my observations) there seems to be something for everyone in the market, sure not many people can afford the Vitacura house, but it still seems like, (again only my imressions), that people are able to get onto the property ladder easier than what they can in NZ nowdays (yes it maybe quite basic housing, but its theirs and they have the security of having their own place).
In the Lakes Region Chile for 6 years. It looks like New Zealand in some ways, and is nearly at the bottom of the world too, but there the similarities end.

Post Reply